Migration to PGLister - After

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Migration to PGLister - After

Stephen Frost
Greetings!

This list has now been migrated to new mailing list software known as
'PGLister'.  This migration will impact all users of this mailing list
in one way or another.

If you would like to unsubscribe from this mailing list, please click on
'Show Original' or 'Show Headers' in your client and find the
'List-Unsubscribe' header which will include a link that you can click
on (or copy/paste into your browser) and use to unsubscribe yourself
from this list.

The changes which we expect to be most significant to users can be found
on the wiki here: https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PGLister_Announce the
current version of which is also included below.

Thank you!

Stephen (on behalf of the pginfra team)

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Re: Migration to PGLister - After

Tatsuo Ishii-3
From: Stephen Frost <[hidden email]>
Subject: Migration to PGLister - After
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 08:14:56 -0500
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>

> Greetings!
>
> This list has now been migrated to new mailing list software known as
> 'PGLister'.  This migration will impact all users of this mailing list
> in one way or another.
>
> If you would like to unsubscribe from this mailing list, please click on
> 'Show Original' or 'Show Headers' in your client and find the
> 'List-Unsubscribe' header which will include a link that you can click
> on (or copy/paste into your browser) and use to unsubscribe yourself
> from this list.
>
> The changes which we expect to be most significant to users can be found
> on the wiki here: https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PGLister_Announce the
> current version of which is also included below.
>
> Thank you!
>
> Stephen (on behalf of the pginfra team)

How does this affect to pgsql-announce moderation?

Best regards,
--
Tatsuo Ishii
SRA OSS, Inc. Japan
English: http://www.sraoss.co.jp/index_en.php
Japanese:http://www.sraoss.co.jp

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Re: Migration to PGLister - After

Stephen Frost
Greetings,

* Tatsuo Ishii ([hidden email]) wrote:

> > This list has now been migrated to new mailing list software known as
> > 'PGLister'.  This migration will impact all users of this mailing list
> > in one way or another.
> >
> > If you would like to unsubscribe from this mailing list, please click on
> > 'Show Original' or 'Show Headers' in your client and find the
> > 'List-Unsubscribe' header which will include a link that you can click
> > on (or copy/paste into your browser) and use to unsubscribe yourself
> > from this list.
> >
> > The changes which we expect to be most significant to users can be found
> > on the wiki here: https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PGLister_Announce the
> > current version of which is also included below.
> >
> > Thank you!
> >
> > Stephen (on behalf of the pginfra team)
>
> How does this affect to pgsql-announce moderation?
When we migrate -announce is a couple of weeks the moderation process
will change a bit.  Each email sent to -announce will generate an email
with a link that's sent to all of the moderators to follow to preview
the email and to approve/reject/etc.

We'll send out more specific information for moderators soon.

Thanks!

Stephen

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Re: Migration to PGLister - After

Alvar C.H. Freude
In reply to this post by Stephen Frost
Hi,

> Am 13.11.2017 um 14:14 schrieb Stephen Frost <[hidden email]>:
>
> The changes which we expect to be most significant to users can be found
> on the wiki here: https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PGLister_Announce the
> current version of which is also included below.

Sorry, this is a little bit off topic, but does someone have a link to pglister?

On the page above there is no link and I was not successful with Google (but it finds the page above ;-) ).

I’m using Sympa for my own mailing lists and are always interested in other alternatives then mailman.

Ciao
  Alvar


--
Alvar C.H. Freude | http://alvar.a-blast.org | [hidden email]
https://blog.alvar-freude.de/
https://www.wen-waehlen.de/





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Re: Migration to PGLister - After

Stephen Frost
Greetings,

* Alvar C.H. Freude ([hidden email]) wrote:

> > Am 13.11.2017 um 14:14 schrieb Stephen Frost <[hidden email]>:
> >
> > The changes which we expect to be most significant to users can be found
> > on the wiki here: https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PGLister_Announce the
> > current version of which is also included below.
>
> Sorry, this is a little bit off topic, but does someone have a link to pglister?
>
> On the page above there is no link and I was not successful with Google (but it finds the page above ;-) ).
>
> I’m using Sympa for my own mailing lists and are always interested in other alternatives then mailman.
Yes, it's actually on our git.postgresql.org system already, we just
need to go through it and review it again to make sure there isn't
anything inappropriate for being published and then we'll open it up.
I'll try to find time this week to do that.

Thanks!

Stephen

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Re: Migration to PGLister - After

Dave Page-7


On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 3:39 PM, Stephen Frost <[hidden email]> wrote:
Greetings,

* Alvar C.H. Freude ([hidden email]) wrote:
> > Am 13.11.2017 um 14:14 schrieb Stephen Frost <[hidden email]>:
> >
> > The changes which we expect to be most significant to users can be found
> > on the wiki here: https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PGLister_Announce the
> > current version of which is also included below.
>
> Sorry, this is a little bit off topic, but does someone have a link to pglister?
>
> On the page above there is no link and I was not successful with Google (but it finds the page above ;-) ).
>
> I’m using Sympa for my own mailing lists and are always interested in other alternatives then mailman.

Yes, it's actually on our git.postgresql.org system already, we just
need to go through it and review it again to make sure there isn't
anything inappropriate for being published and then we'll open it up.
I'll try to find time this week to do that.

It's worth noting though that it is tied into both our existing community user account system and our underlying infrastructure. Don't expect a nice shiny RPM or DEB that you can just install and run - it would almost certainly take a fair amount of effort.

--
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake

EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
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Re: Migration to PGLister - After

Stephen Frost
Dave,

* Dave Page ([hidden email]) wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 3:39 PM, Stephen Frost <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > * Alvar C.H. Freude ([hidden email]) wrote:
> > > I’m using Sympa for my own mailing lists and are always interested in
> > other alternatives then mailman.
> >
> > Yes, it's actually on our git.postgresql.org system already, we just
> > need to go through it and review it again to make sure there isn't
> > anything inappropriate for being published and then we'll open it up.
> > I'll try to find time this week to do that.
>
> It's worth noting though that it is tied into both our existing community
> user account system and our underlying infrastructure. Don't expect a nice
> shiny RPM or DEB that you can just install and run - it would almost
> certainly take a fair amount of effort.
Agreed, but were someone interested in making that happen, I don't think
we would be against it.  Of course, there'd be quite a few details to be
worked out in any such effort, but I don't think we necessairly need to
shut it down if someone's willing to do it.

Thanks!

Stephen

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Re: Migration to PGLister - After

Alvar Freude
In reply to this post by Dave Page-7
Hi,

> Am 13.11.2017 um 16:50 schrieb Dave Page <[hidden email]>:
>
> It's worth noting though that it is tied into both our existing community user account system and our underlying infrastructure. Don't expect a nice shiny RPM or DEB that you can just install and run - it would almost certainly take a fair amount of effort.

As FreeBSD-User I usually don’t expect RPM or DEB ;-)

I’m just curious, that’s all.


Thanks && Ciao
  Alvar


--
Alvar C.H. Freude | http://alvar.a-blast.org | [hidden email]
https://blog.alvar-freude.de/
https://www.wen-waehlen.de/





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Re: Migration to PGLister - After

Geoff Winkless
In reply to this post by Stephen Frost
The removal of the [HACKERS] (etc) header will be frustrating for me: I do not sort mailing lists into folders (I simply scan the "Forums" autofilter in gmail) and have no wish to do so, and there is no way to make such a machine-readable header visible in gmail.

Perhaps those users who wish to use DKIM on their email to the list could be persuaded to remove the Subject line from list of optional fields to be signed for list email? 

It seems to me unreasonable that those users who don't want to use a feature should be inconvenienced by those who do.

Geoff

On 13 November 2017 at 13:14, Stephen Frost <[hidden email]> wrote:
Greetings!

This list has now been migrated to new mailing list software known as
'PGLister'.  This migration will impact all users of this mailing list
in one way or another.

If you would like to unsubscribe from this mailing list, please click on
'Show Original' or 'Show Headers' in your client and find the
'List-Unsubscribe' header which will include a link that you can click
on (or copy/paste into your browser) and use to unsubscribe yourself
from this list.

The changes which we expect to be most significant to users can be found
on the wiki here: https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PGLister_Announce the
current version of which is also included below.

Thank you!

Stephen (on behalf of the pginfra team)

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Re: Migration to PGLister - After

Dave Page-7


On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 4:41 PM, Geoff Winkless <[hidden email]> wrote:
The removal of the [HACKERS] (etc) header will be frustrating for me: I do not sort mailing lists into folders (I simply scan the "Forums" autofilter in gmail) and have no wish to do so, and there is no way to make such a machine-readable header visible in gmail.

Perhaps those users who wish to use DKIM on their email to the list could be persuaded to remove the Subject line from list of optional fields to be signed for list email? 

It seems to me unreasonable that those users who don't want to use a feature should be inconvenienced by those who do.

That would be fine if everyone ran their own mail servers, be the vast majority of people use mail providers like Google, Yahoo, Microsoft etc. who do not make it optional.
 

Geoff

On 13 November 2017 at 13:14, Stephen Frost <[hidden email]> wrote:
Greetings!

This list has now been migrated to new mailing list software known as
'PGLister'.  This migration will impact all users of this mailing list
in one way or another.

If you would like to unsubscribe from this mailing list, please click on
'Show Original' or 'Show Headers' in your client and find the
'List-Unsubscribe' header which will include a link that you can click
on (or copy/paste into your browser) and use to unsubscribe yourself
from this list.

The changes which we expect to be most significant to users can be found
on the wiki here: https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PGLister_Announce the
current version of which is also included below.

Thank you!

Stephen (on behalf of the pginfra team)




--
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake

EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
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Re: Migration to PGLister - After

Kenneth Marshall-3
In reply to this post by Geoff Winkless
Hi,

I also find it very useful to be able to identify the list by the subject.
The way to address this is, as Geoff mentions, to NOT include subject in
your DKIM signature.

Regards,
Ken

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 04:41:59PM +0000, Geoff Winkless wrote:

> The removal of the [HACKERS] (etc) header will be frustrating for me: I do
> not sort mailing lists into folders (I simply scan the "Forums" autofilter
> in gmail) and have no wish to do so, and there is no way to make such a
> machine-readable header visible in gmail.
>
> Perhaps those users who wish to use DKIM on their email to the list could
> be persuaded to remove the Subject line from list of optional fields to be
> signed for list email?
>
> It seems to me unreasonable that those users who don't want to use a
> feature should be inconvenienced by those who do.
>
> Geoff
>
> On 13 November 2017 at 13:14, Stephen Frost <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Greetings!
> >
> > This list has now been migrated to new mailing list software known as
> > 'PGLister'.  This migration will impact all users of this mailing list
> > in one way or another.
> >
> > If you would like to unsubscribe from this mailing list, please click on
> > 'Show Original' or 'Show Headers' in your client and find the
> > 'List-Unsubscribe' header which will include a link that you can click
> > on (or copy/paste into your browser) and use to unsubscribe yourself
> > from this list.
> >
> > The changes which we expect to be most significant to users can be found
> > on the wiki here: https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PGLister_Announce the
> > current version of which is also included below.
> >
> > Thank you!
> >
> > Stephen (on behalf of the pginfra team)
> >

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Re: Migration to PGLister - After

Stephen Frost
In reply to this post by Geoff Winkless
Greetings,

* Geoff Winkless ([hidden email]) wrote:
> The removal of the [HACKERS] (etc) header will be frustrating for me: I do
> not sort mailing lists into folders (I simply scan the "Forums" autofilter
> in gmail) and have no wish to do so, and there is no way to make such a
> machine-readable header visible in gmail.

I'm certainly sorry to hear that.

> Perhaps those users who wish to use DKIM on their email to the list could
> be persuaded to remove the Subject line from list of optional fields to be
> signed for list email?

This is often not under their control (are you aware of some way to get
GMail to do that...?  Your email certainly includes the subject in the
DKIM signature) and, even if it was, I doubt we'd be able to get the
majority of users to actually do this, meaning we would continue to send
out lots of email with invalid DKIM signatures, or to only have the
Subject mangling on a subset of the emails, neither of which is
acceptable.

> It seems to me unreasonable that those users who don't want to use a
> feature should be inconvenienced by those who do.

Unfortunately, DKIM is a thing and it's not likely to be changed very
easily.

Thanks!

Stephen

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Re: Migration to PGLister - After

Álvaro Herrera
In reply to this post by Geoff Winkless
Geoff Winkless wrote:
> The removal of the [HACKERS] (etc) header will be frustrating for me: I do
> not sort mailing lists into folders (I simply scan the "Forums" autofilter
> in gmail) and have no wish to do so, and there is no way to make such a
> machine-readable header visible in gmail.

Maybe you could add a filter that add labels based on the headers?

--
Álvaro Herrera                https://www.2ndQuadrant.com/
PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Remote DBA, Training & Services

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Re: Migration to PGLister - After

Geoff Winkless
On 13 November 2017 at 17:10, Alvaro Herrera <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Geoff Winkless wrote:
>> The removal of the [HACKERS] (etc) header will be frustrating for me: I do
>> not sort mailing lists into folders (I simply scan the "Forums" autofilter
>> in gmail) and have no wish to do so, and there is no way to make such a
>> machine-readable header visible in gmail.
>
> Maybe you could add a filter that add labels based on the headers?

Hmm.  I didn't even know gmail could do that, thanks!

Anyone who also didn't know this, you just add

list:"<pgsql-hackers.lists.postgresql.org>"

to the "Includes the words" field in the filter creation.

Geoff

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Re: Migration to PGLister - After

Gregg Jaskiewicz


> On 13 Nov 2017, at 17:45, Geoff Winkless <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 13 November 2017 at 17:10, Alvaro Herrera <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Geoff Winkless wrote:
>>> The removal of the [HACKERS] (etc) header will be frustrating for me: I do
>>> not sort mailing lists into folders (I simply scan the "Forums" autofilter
>>> in gmail) and have no wish to do so, and there is no way to make such a
>>> machine-readable header visible in gmail.
>>
>> Maybe you could add a filter that add labels based on the headers?
>
> Hmm.  I didn't even know gmail could do that, thanks!
>
> Anyone who also didn't know this, you just add
>
> list:"<pgsql-hackers.lists.postgresql.org>”

Please do !
That’s what I filter with.


>
> to the "Includes the words" field in the filter creation.


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Re: Migration to PGLister - After

Tom Lane-2
In reply to this post by Geoff Winkless
Geoff Winkless <[hidden email]> writes:
> The removal of the [HACKERS] (etc) header will be frustrating for me: I do
> not sort mailing lists into folders (I simply scan the "Forums" autofilter
> in gmail) and have no wish to do so, and there is no way to make such a
> machine-readable header visible in gmail.

I'm told it's actually very easy to handle this in gmail: set up a filter
that recognizes list messages (make it key on the List-ID header) and then
tags them with an appropriate label.

We should put detailed instructions about how to do that on the wiki page
about the migration, but not being a gmail user I can't provide exact
instructions.

> Perhaps those users who wish to use DKIM on their email to the list could
> be persuaded to remove the Subject line from list of optional fields to be
> signed for list email?

As Stephen mentioned, there are no good solutions that would allow us to
keep mangling subject headers.  This has been debated extensively already.

                        regards, tom lane

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Re: Migration to PGLister - After

Pavel Golub-2
In reply to this post by Geoff Winkless
Hello, Geoff.

You wrote:

GW> The removal of the [HACKERS] (etc) header will be frustrating for
GW> me: I do not sort mailing lists into folders (I simply scan the
GW> "Forums" autofilter in gmail) and have no wish to do so, and there
GW> is no way to make such a machine-readable header visible in gmail.


Who had troubles with GMail's filters and pgsql-hackers & pgsql-bugs yesterday?
https://pgolub.wordpress.com/2017/11/14/hackers-and-bugs-lists-migration-and-gmails-filters/

tl;dr: Use list operator in search and filters

GW> Perhaps those users who wish to use DKIM on their email to the
GW> list could be persuaded to remove the Subject line from list of
GW> optional fields to be signed for list email? 


GW> It seems to me unreasonable that those users who don't want to
GW> use a feature should be inconvenienced by those who do.


GW> Geoff

GW> On 13 November 2017 at 13:14, Stephen Frost <[hidden email]> wrote:

GW> Greetings!

GW>  This list has now been migrated to new mailing list software known as
GW>  'PGLister'.  This migration will impact all users of this mailing list
GW>  in one way or another.

GW>  If you would like to unsubscribe from this mailing list, please click on
GW>  'Show Original' or 'Show Headers' in your client and find the
GW>  'List-Unsubscribe' header which will include a link that you can click
GW>  on (or copy/paste into your browser) and use to unsubscribe yourself
GW>  from this list.

GW>  The changes which we expect to be most significant to users can be found
GW>  on the wiki here:
GW> https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PGLister_Announce the
GW>  current version of which is also included below.

GW>  Thank you!

GW>  Stephen (on behalf of the pginfra team)





--
With best wishes,
 Pavel                          mailto:[hidden email]


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Re: Migration to PGLister - After

Pavel Golub-2
In reply to this post by Tom Lane-2
Hello, Tom.

You wrote:

TL> Geoff Winkless <[hidden email]> writes:
>> The removal of the [HACKERS] (etc) header will be frustrating for me: I do
>> not sort mailing lists into folders (I simply scan the "Forums" autofilter
>> in gmail) and have no wish to do so, and there is no way to make such a
>> machine-readable header visible in gmail.

TL> I'm told it's actually very easy to handle this in gmail: set up a filter
TL> that recognizes list messages (make it key on the List-ID header) and then
TL> tags them with an appropriate label.

TL> We should put detailed instructions about how to do that on the wiki page
TL> about the migration, but not being a gmail user I can't provide exact
TL> instructions.

Here my post with instructions and screenshots
https://pgolub.wordpress.com/2017/11/14/hackers-and-bugs-lists-migration-and-gmails-filters/ 

>> Perhaps those users who wish to use DKIM on their email to the list could
>> be persuaded to remove the Subject line from list of optional fields to be
>> signed for list email?

TL> As Stephen mentioned, there are no good solutions that would allow us to
TL> keep mangling subject headers.  This has been debated extensively already.

TL>                         regards, tom lane




--
With best wishes,
 Pavel                          mailto:[hidden email]


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Re: Migration to PGLister - After

Magnus Hagander-2
On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 9:58 AM, Pavel Golub <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello, Tom.

You wrote:

TL> Geoff Winkless <[hidden email]> writes:
>> The removal of the [HACKERS] (etc) header will be frustrating for me: I do
>> not sort mailing lists into folders (I simply scan the "Forums" autofilter
>> in gmail) and have no wish to do so, and there is no way to make such a
>> machine-readable header visible in gmail.

TL> I'm told it's actually very easy to handle this in gmail: set up a filter
TL> that recognizes list messages (make it key on the List-ID header) and then
TL> tags them with an appropriate label.

TL> We should put detailed instructions about how to do that on the wiki page
TL> about the migration, but not being a gmail user I can't provide exact
TL> instructions.

Here my post with instructions and screenshots
https://pgolub.wordpress.com/2017/11/14/hackers-and-bugs-lists-migration-and-gmails-filters/


Thanks!

It's also worth noticing that if you use gmails feature  "Filter messages like these" on one of the mails, it will automatically populate the search box with the list header by default.

--
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Re: Migration to PGLister - After

Pavel Golub-2
Hello, Magnus.

You wrote:

MH> On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 9:58 AM, Pavel Golub <[hidden email]>wrote:

MH> Hello, Tom.

MH>  You wrote:

 TL>> Geoff Winkless <[hidden email]> writes:
 >>> The removal of the [HACKERS] (etc) header will be frustrating for me: I do
 >>> not sort mailing lists into folders (I simply scan the "Forums" autofilter
 >>> in gmail) and have no wish to do so, and there is no way to make such a
 >>> machine-readable header visible in gmail.

TL>> I'm told it's actually very easy to handle this in gmail: set up a filter
 TL>> that recognizes list messages (make it key on the List-ID header) and then
 TL>> tags them with an appropriate label.

 TL>> We should put detailed instructions about how to do that on the wiki page
 TL>> about the migration, but not being a gmail user I can't provide exact
 TL>> instructions.

MH>  Here my post with instructions and screenshots
MH> https://pgolub.wordpress.com/2017/11/14/hackers-and-bugs-lists-migration-and-gmails-filters/





MH> Thanks!


MH> It's also worth noticing that if you use gmails feature  "Filter
MH> messages like these" on one of the mails, it will automatically
MH> populate the search box with the list header by default.


Nice!!! Will add to the post. Thanks!

--
With best wishes,
 Pavel                          mailto:[hidden email]


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