Archiving of pgsql-announce

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Archiving of pgsql-announce

Magnus Hagander-2
With the changes to pgsql-announce made a couple of months ago to have
it synced up with the news on www.postgresql.org, we are now
"archiving" news posts both on www.postgresql.org/about/newsarchive/
and on www.postgresql.org/list/pgsql-announce, with the second one
archiving it without the formatting.

I suggest that we stop the archiving of the list itself, and stick to
just the news archive. We can also update the list description to
explicitly say this with a link back of course.

(We will of course continue to *send* it to the list, I'm just talking
about the archives)

AFAICT the only actual lost functionality in this would be that you
can't get old news in mbox format.

Thoughts?

--
 Magnus Hagander
 Me: https://www.hagander.net/
 Work: https://www.redpill-linpro.com/


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Re: Archiving of pgsql-announce

Tatsuo Ishii-3
> With the changes to pgsql-announce made a couple of months ago to have
> it synced up with the news on www.postgresql.org, we are now
> "archiving" news posts both on www.postgresql.org/about/newsarchive/
> and on www.postgresql.org/list/pgsql-announce, with the second one
> archiving it without the formatting.
>
> I suggest that we stop the archiving of the list itself, and stick to
> just the news archive. We can also update the list description to
> explicitly say this with a link back of course.
>
> (We will of course continue to *send* it to the list, I'm just talking
> about the archives)
>
> AFAICT the only actual lost functionality in this would be that you
> can't get old news in mbox format.

I think we also lose the functionality to do a search on the news
archive, no?

Best regards,
--
Tatsuo Ishii
SRA OSS, Inc. Japan
English: http://www.sraoss.co.jp/index_en.php
Japanese:http://www.sraoss.co.jp


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Re: Archiving of pgsql-announce

Magnus Hagander-2
On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 12:19 PM Tatsuo Ishii <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> > With the changes to pgsql-announce made a couple of months ago to have
> > it synced up with the news on www.postgresql.org, we are now
> > "archiving" news posts both on www.postgresql.org/about/newsarchive/
> > and on www.postgresql.org/list/pgsql-announce, with the second one
> > archiving it without the formatting.
> >
> > I suggest that we stop the archiving of the list itself, and stick to
> > just the news archive. We can also update the list description to
> > explicitly say this with a link back of course.
> >
> > (We will of course continue to *send* it to the list, I'm just talking
> > about the archives)
> >
> > AFAICT the only actual lost functionality in this would be that you
> > can't get old news in mbox format.
>
> I think we also lose the functionality to do a search on the news
> archive, no?

No, the news archive is part of the main site search so it should get
any hits in that.

Now since it's the site search you can't limit the search by say date
range, which you could with -announce, so I guess you will get
somewhat decreased search functionality, but it's not gone.

--
 Magnus Hagander
 Me: https://www.hagander.net/
 Work: https://www.redpill-linpro.com/


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Re: Archiving of pgsql-announce

Tatsuo Ishii-3
> No, the news archive is part of the main site search so it should get
> any hits in that.
>
> Now since it's the site search you can't limit the search by say date
> range, which you could with -announce, so I guess you will get
> somewhat decreased search functionality, but it's not gone.

Ok. What about past psql-annouce mailing list archives? Are they kept?
--
Tatsuo Ishii
SRA OSS, Inc. Japan
English: http://www.sraoss.co.jp/index_en.php
Japanese:http://www.sraoss.co.jp


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Re: Archiving of pgsql-announce

Magnus Hagander-2
On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 12:36 PM Tatsuo Ishii <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > No, the news archive is part of the main site search so it should get
> > any hits in that.
> >
> > Now since it's the site search you can't limit the search by say date
> > range, which you could with -announce, so I guess you will get
> > somewhat decreased search functionality, but it's not gone.
>
> Ok. What about past psql-annouce mailing list archives? Are they kept?

Ah yes, my suggestion is only to not archive *new* messages. The old
archives should definitely be kept.

--
 Magnus Hagander
 Me: https://www.hagander.net/
 Work: https://www.redpill-linpro.com/


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Re: Archiving of pgsql-announce

Tatsuo Ishii-3
>> Ok. What about past psql-annouce mailing list archives? Are they kept?
>
> Ah yes, my suggestion is only to not archive *new* messages. The old
> archives should definitely be kept.

Great. Your proposal sounds good to me.

Best regards,
--
Tatsuo Ishii
SRA OSS, Inc. Japan
English: http://www.sraoss.co.jp/index_en.php
Japanese:http://www.sraoss.co.jp


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Re: Archiving of pgsql-announce

Jonathan S. Katz-3
In reply to this post by Magnus Hagander-2
On 11/23/20 5:28 AM, Magnus Hagander wrote:

> With the changes to pgsql-announce made a couple of months ago to have
> it synced up with the news on www.postgresql.org, we are now
> "archiving" news posts both on www.postgresql.org/about/newsarchive/
> and on www.postgresql.org/list/pgsql-announce, with the second one
> archiving it without the formatting.
>
> I suggest that we stop the archiving of the list itself, and stick to
> just the news archive. We can also update the list description to
> explicitly say this with a link back of course.
>
> (We will of course continue to *send* it to the list, I'm just talking
> about the archives)
>
> AFAICT the only actual lost functionality in this would be that you
> can't get old news in mbox format.
-1; I think it may cause confusion to people who are subscribed to the
mailing lists who are looking up things that may be in the mailing list
archives.

Additionally, the email did technically go over the mailing list, and
per our archives policy[1], "this site is intended to provide an
accurate representation of the activity on the lists, and as such will
not be modified."

While I love our new news system, I think the archives are supposed to
serve the purpose of being the mailing list archives, and if we are
sending out mail over a public mailing list, we should archive it.

Additionally, the 3rd party mailing list aggregators are going to keep
archiving it anyway, so we may as well maintain the canonical source of
truth.

Jonathan

[1] https://www.postgresql.org/about/policies/archives/


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Re: Archiving of pgsql-announce

Dave Page-7


On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 2:00 PM Jonathan S. Katz <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 11/23/20 5:28 AM, Magnus Hagander wrote:
> With the changes to pgsql-announce made a couple of months ago to have
> it synced up with the news on www.postgresql.org, we are now
> "archiving" news posts both on www.postgresql.org/about/newsarchive/
> and on www.postgresql.org/list/pgsql-announce, with the second one
> archiving it without the formatting.
>
> I suggest that we stop the archiving of the list itself, and stick to
> just the news archive. We can also update the list description to
> explicitly say this with a link back of course.
>
> (We will of course continue to *send* it to the list, I'm just talking
> about the archives)
>
> AFAICT the only actual lost functionality in this would be that you
> can't get old news in mbox format.

-1; I think it may cause confusion to people who are subscribed to the
mailing lists who are looking up things that may be in the mailing list
archives.

Additionally, the email did technically go over the mailing list, and
per our archives policy[1], "this site is intended to provide an
accurate representation of the activity on the lists, and as such will
not be modified."

While I love our new news system, I think the archives are supposed to
serve the purpose of being the mailing list archives, and if we are
sending out mail over a public mailing list, we should archive it.

I agree.
 

Additionally, the 3rd party mailing list aggregators are going to keep
archiving it anyway, so we may as well maintain the canonical source of
truth.

That is also a good point. 

--
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake

EDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com

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Re: Archiving of pgsql-announce

Adrian Klaver-4
In reply to this post by Jonathan S. Katz-3
On 11/23/20 6:00 AM, Jonathan S. Katz wrote:

> On 11/23/20 5:28 AM, Magnus Hagander wrote:
>> With the changes to pgsql-announce made a couple of months ago to have
>> it synced up with the news on www.postgresql.org, we are now
>> "archiving" news posts both on www.postgresql.org/about/newsarchive/
>> and on www.postgresql.org/list/pgsql-announce, with the second one
>> archiving it without the formatting.
>>
>> I suggest that we stop the archiving of the list itself, and stick to
>> just the news archive. We can also update the list description to
>> explicitly say this with a link back of course.
>>
>> (We will of course continue to *send* it to the list, I'm just talking
>> about the archives)
>>
>> AFAICT the only actual lost functionality in this would be that you
>> can't get old news in mbox format.
>
> -1; I think it may cause confusion to people who are subscribed to the
> mailing lists who are looking up things that may be in the mailing list
> archives.
>
> Additionally, the email did technically go over the mailing list, and
> per our archives policy[1], "this site is intended to provide an
> accurate representation of the activity on the lists, and as such will
> not be modified."
>
> While I love our new news system, I think the archives are supposed to
> serve the purpose of being the mailing list archives, and if we are
> sending out mail over a public mailing list, we should archive it.
>
> Additionally, the 3rd party mailing list aggregators are going to keep
> archiving it anyway, so we may as well maintain the canonical source of
> truth.

+1

>
> Jonathan
>
> [1] https://www.postgresql.org/about/policies/archives/
>


--
Adrian Klaver
[hidden email]


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Re: Archiving of pgsql-announce

Stephen Frost
In reply to this post by Jonathan S. Katz-3
Greetings,

* Jonathan S. Katz ([hidden email]) wrote:

> On 11/23/20 5:28 AM, Magnus Hagander wrote:
> > With the changes to pgsql-announce made a couple of months ago to have
> > it synced up with the news on www.postgresql.org, we are now
> > "archiving" news posts both on www.postgresql.org/about/newsarchive/
> > and on www.postgresql.org/list/pgsql-announce, with the second one
> > archiving it without the formatting.
> >
> > I suggest that we stop the archiving of the list itself, and stick to
> > just the news archive. We can also update the list description to
> > explicitly say this with a link back of course.
> >
> > (We will of course continue to *send* it to the list, I'm just talking
> > about the archives)
> >
> > AFAICT the only actual lost functionality in this would be that you
> > can't get old news in mbox format.
>
> -1; I think it may cause confusion to people who are subscribed to the
> mailing lists who are looking up things that may be in the mailing list
> archives.
>
> Additionally, the email did technically go over the mailing list, and
> per our archives policy[1], "this site is intended to provide an
> accurate representation of the activity on the lists, and as such will
> not be modified."
>
> While I love our new news system, I think the archives are supposed to
> serve the purpose of being the mailing list archives, and if we are
> sending out mail over a public mailing list, we should archive it.
>
> Additionally, the 3rd party mailing list aggregators are going to keep
> archiving it anyway, so we may as well maintain the canonical source of
> truth.
+1 to all of the above, and I know that I, at least, would get annoyed
at having to remember that I can't find the archive of an email that
was sent to -announce because we wanted to save, what, a few megs a
year?

So, -1 to the proposal for my part too.

Thanks,

Stephen

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Re: Archiving of pgsql-announce

Magnus Hagander-2
On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 5:42 PM Stephen Frost <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Greetings,
>
> * Jonathan S. Katz ([hidden email]) wrote:
> > On 11/23/20 5:28 AM, Magnus Hagander wrote:
> > > With the changes to pgsql-announce made a couple of months ago to have
> > > it synced up with the news on www.postgresql.org, we are now
> > > "archiving" news posts both on www.postgresql.org/about/newsarchive/
> > > and on www.postgresql.org/list/pgsql-announce, with the second one
> > > archiving it without the formatting.
> > >
> > > I suggest that we stop the archiving of the list itself, and stick to
> > > just the news archive. We can also update the list description to
> > > explicitly say this with a link back of course.
> > >
> > > (We will of course continue to *send* it to the list, I'm just talking
> > > about the archives)
> > >
> > > AFAICT the only actual lost functionality in this would be that you
> > > can't get old news in mbox format.
> >
> > -1; I think it may cause confusion to people who are subscribed to the
> > mailing lists who are looking up things that may be in the mailing list
> > archives.
> >
> > Additionally, the email did technically go over the mailing list, and
> > per our archives policy[1], "this site is intended to provide an
> > accurate representation of the activity on the lists, and as such will
> > not be modified."
> >
> > While I love our new news system, I think the archives are supposed to
> > serve the purpose of being the mailing list archives, and if we are
> > sending out mail over a public mailing list, we should archive it.
> >
> > Additionally, the 3rd party mailing list aggregators are going to keep
> > archiving it anyway, so we may as well maintain the canonical source of
> > truth.
>
> +1 to all of the above, and I know that I, at least, would get annoyed
> at having to remember that I can't find the archive of an email that
> was sent to -announce because we wanted to save, what, a few megs a
> year?
>
> So, -1 to the proposal for my part too.

Oh, it's not about saving space, it's about not having the same
information in multiple places. Call it normalization if you will :)

That said, I think we've collected enough -1's to it to say that we
shouldn't do it. (And I assume in this that Adrian meant to "+1 the
-1" -- if that was the wrong interpretation, please let me know).

 Thanks for playing!

--
 Magnus Hagander
 Me: https://www.hagander.net/
 Work: https://www.redpill-linpro.com/