Assembling "top features" list for beta announcement

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Assembling "top features" list for beta announcement

Josh Berkus-6
Folks:

While 10 isn't 100% baked yet, I'd like to get started sorting out what
our "top 2-4" features for the beta announcement are going to be.
Traditionally, we've mentioned two to four features in detail, together
with a bullet list of other significant features.  With the help of PVH,
here's what I have so far:

Banner features:

- pglogical logical replication
- table partitions in core

Significant features:

- XMLTABLE query expressions
- hash indexes in wal
- PGFDW: push down aggregates

It looks like quorum sync rep won't make it, correct?

Notable note: pg_xlog => pg_wal

So .., please add to the above lists.  Thanks!

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Re: Assembling "top features" list for beta announcement

Justin Clift-2
On 7 Apr 2017, at 17:39, Josh Berkus <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Folks:
>
> While 10 isn't 100% baked yet, I'd like to get started sorting out what
> our "top 2-4" features for the beta announcement are going to be.
> Traditionally, we've mentioned two to four features in detail, together
> with a bullet list of other significant features.  With the help of PVH,
> here's what I have so far:
>
> Banner features:
>
> - pglogical logical replication
> - table partitions in core
>
> Significant features:
>
> - XMLTABLE query expressions
> - hash indexes in wal
> - PGFDW: push down aggregates
>
> It looks like quorum sync rep won't make it, correct?
>
> Notable note: pg_xlog => pg_wal
>
> So .., please add to the above lists.  Thanks!

Would any of these be suitable for using "pretty graphics" with?

  eg for illustrating potential change in query time/database load/etc

Purely for making things easier for readers to grok that is. :)

+ Justin

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"My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those
who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the
first group; there was less competition there."
- Indira Gandhi



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Re: Assembling "top features" list for beta announcement

Josh Berkus-6
On 04/07/2017 09:47 AM, Justin Clift wrote:

> On 7 Apr 2017, at 17:39, Josh Berkus <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Folks:
>>
>> While 10 isn't 100% baked yet, I'd like to get started sorting out what
>> our "top 2-4" features for the beta announcement are going to be.
>> Traditionally, we've mentioned two to four features in detail, together
>> with a bullet list of other significant features.  With the help of PVH,
>> here's what I have so far:
>>
>> Banner features:
>>
>> - pglogical logical replication
>> - table partitions in core
>>
>> Significant features:
>>
>> - XMLTABLE query expressions
>> - hash indexes in wal
>> - PGFDW: push down aggregates
>>
>> It looks like quorum sync rep won't make it, correct?
>>
>> Notable note: pg_xlog => pg_wal
>>
>> So .., please add to the above lists.  Thanks!
>
> Would any of these be suitable for using "pretty graphics" with?
>
>   eg for illustrating potential change in query time/database load/etc
>
> Purely for making things easier for readers to grok that is. :)
>

I'd save that for the final release announcement, but if you're prepared
to do graphics, the new partitioning might be a good candidate.


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Re: Assembling "top features" list for beta announcement

Justin Clift-2
On 7 Apr 2017, at 17:52, Josh Berkus <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 04/07/2017 09:47 AM, Justin Clift wrote:
>> On 7 Apr 2017, at 17:39, Josh Berkus <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Folks:
>>>
>>> While 10 isn't 100% baked yet, I'd like to get started sorting out what
>>> our "top 2-4" features for the beta announcement are going to be.
>>> Traditionally, we've mentioned two to four features in detail, together
>>> with a bullet list of other significant features.  With the help of PVH,
>>> here's what I have so far:
>>>
>>> Banner features:
>>>
>>> - pglogical logical replication
>>> - table partitions in core
>>>
>>> Significant features:
>>>
>>> - XMLTABLE query expressions
>>> - hash indexes in wal
>>> - PGFDW: push down aggregates
>>>
>>> It looks like quorum sync rep won't make it, correct?
>>>
>>> Notable note: pg_xlog => pg_wal
>>>
>>> So .., please add to the above lists.  Thanks!
>>
>> Would any of these be suitable for using "pretty graphics" with?
>>
>>  eg for illustrating potential change in query time/database load/etc
>>
>> Purely for making things easier for readers to grok that is. :)
>
> I'd save that for the final release announcement, but if you're prepared
> to do graphics, the new partitioning might be a good candidate.

Yep, that should be something I have time for. :)

+ Justin

--
"My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those
who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the
first group; there was less competition there."
- Indira Gandhi



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Re: Assembling "top features" list for beta announcement

Amit Langote
In reply to this post by Josh Berkus-6
On Sat, Apr 8, 2017 at 1:39 AM, Josh Berkus <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> It looks like quorum sync rep won't make it, correct?
>

Quorum sync rep will be there.  See:

https://www.postgresql.org/docs/devel/static/runtime-config-replication.html#runtime-config-replication-master

"The keyword ANY, coupled with num_sync, specifies a quorum-based
synchronous replication and makes transaction commits wait until their
WAL records are replicated to at least num_sync listed standbys. For
example,..."

Thanks,
Amit


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Re: Assembling "top features" list for beta announcement

Josh Berkus-6
On 04/07/2017 12:30 PM, Amit Langote wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 8, 2017 at 1:39 AM, Josh Berkus <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> It looks like quorum sync rep won't make it, correct?
>>
>
> Quorum sync rep will be there.  See:
>
> https://www.postgresql.org/docs/devel/static/runtime-config-replication.html#runtime-config-replication-master
>
> "The keyword ANY, coupled with num_sync, specifies a quorum-based
> synchronous replication and makes transaction commits wait until their
> WAL records are replicated to at least num_sync listed standbys. For
> example,..."

Ah, I misunderstood some of the comments on the patch!

That's good news, that's a 3rd banner feature.


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Re: Assembling "top features" list for beta announcement

Peter Eisentraut-6
In reply to this post by Josh Berkus-6
On 4/7/17 12:39, Josh Berkus wrote:
> - pglogical logical replication

Note that "pglogical" != "built-in logical replication" (or whatever you
want to call the latter).

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Re: Assembling "top features" list for beta announcement

Kevin Grittner-7
In reply to this post by Josh Berkus-6
On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Josh Berkus <[hidden email]> wrote:

> While 10 isn't 100% baked yet, I'd like to get started sorting out what
> our "top 2-4" features for the beta announcement are going to be.
> Traditionally, we've mentioned two to four features in detail, together
> with a bullet list of other significant features.  With the help of PVH,
> here's what I have so far:
>
> Banner features:
>
> - pglogical logical replication
> - table partitions in core
>
> Significant features:
>
> - XMLTABLE query expressions
> - hash indexes in wal
> - PGFDW: push down aggregates

> Notable note: pg_xlog => pg_wal
>
> So .., please add to the above lists.  Thanks!

I don't think it merits top 2-4 features, but transition tables for
AFTER triggers is a SQL standard feature that I think most products
have had and we have not ... until v10.

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Kevin Grittner


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Re: Assembling "top features" list for beta announcement

Peter Geoghegan-4
In reply to this post by Josh Berkus-6
On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Josh Berkus <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Banner features:
>
> - pglogical logical replication
> - table partitions in core

IMV, this also includes:

- More extensive parallelism. Not really one feature, but a good
bullet point for marketing purposes.
- Expression evaluation optimization work, which will eventually lead
to PostgreSQL using an LLVM based JIT.

Both talks on these new features were absolutely packed at pgConf US,
so it's clear to me that the user interest is certainly there.

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Re: Assembling "top features" list for beta announcement

Michael Paquier
On Sat, Apr 8, 2017 at 7:01 AM, Peter Geoghegan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Josh Berkus <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Banner features:
>>
>> - pglogical logical replication
>> - table partitions in core
>
> IMV, this also includes:
>
> - More extensive parallelism. Not really one feature, but a good
> bullet point for marketing purposes.
> - Expression evaluation optimization work, which will eventually lead
> to PostgreSQL using an LLVM based JIT.
>
> Both talks on these new features were absolutely packed at pgConf US,
> so it's clear to me that the user interest is certainly there.

SCRAM perhaps? Users complain a good deal about MD5.
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Re: Assembling "top features" list for beta announcement

David Fetter
On Sat, Apr 08, 2017 at 07:23:35AM +0900, Michael Paquier wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 8, 2017 at 7:01 AM, Peter Geoghegan <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Josh Berkus <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> Banner features:
> >>
> >> - pglogical logical replication
> >> - table partitions in core
> >
> > IMV, this also includes:
> >
> > - More extensive parallelism. Not really one feature, but a good
> > bullet point for marketing purposes.
> > - Expression evaluation optimization work, which will eventually lead
> > to PostgreSQL using an LLVM based JIT.
> >
> > Both talks on these new features were absolutely packed at pgConf US,
> > so it's clear to me that the user interest is certainly there.
>
> SCRAM perhaps? Users complain a good deal about MD5.

+1 to each of these.

Best,
David.
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Re: Assembling "top features" list for beta announcement

Thomas Kellerer
In reply to this post by Kevin Grittner-7
Kevin Grittner schrieb am 08.04.2017 um 00:01:
> I don't think it merits top 2-4 features, but transition tables for
> AFTER triggers is a SQL standard feature that I think most products
> have had and we have not ... until v10.

I think only SQL Server and DB2 have that.

Oracle has no such thing for their statement level trigger (it can be implemented using a compound trigger and a temporary table)

MySQL has no statement level triggers

 





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Re: Assembling "top features" list for beta announcement

Josh Berkus-6
In reply to this post by Peter Geoghegan-4
On 04/07/2017 03:01 PM, Peter Geoghegan wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Josh Berkus <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Banner features:
>>
>> - pglogical logical replication
>> - table partitions in core
>
> IMV, this also includes:
>
> - More extensive parallelism. Not really one feature, but a good
> bullet point for marketing purposes.

Anyone got a list of the additional things which are parallelizable now?
 I know index scans, what else?


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Re: Assembling "top features" list for beta announcement

Peter Geoghegan-4
On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 4:43 PM, Josh Berkus <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Anyone got a list of the additional things which are parallelizable now?
>  I know index scans, what else?

This is a good summary:
https://rhaas.blogspot.com/2017/03/parallel-query-v2.html

Of the "not yet committed" items listed there, only "Improve Access to
Parallel Query from Procedural Languages" ended up making it into
Postgres 10.

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Re: Assembling "top features" list for beta announcement

Josh Berkus-6
In reply to this post by Peter Eisentraut-6
On 04/07/2017 02:42 PM, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
>> - pglogical logical replication
> Note that "pglogical" != "built-in logical replication" (or whatever you
> want to call the latter).

Clarify?

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Re: Assembling "top features" list for beta announcement

Josh Berkus-6
In reply to this post by Peter Geoghegan-4
So, lemme update the running list:

Banner Features:

- pglogical
- new partitioning
- quorum sync rep
- parallel index scan, bitmap scan, and merge join

Other Features:

- XMLTABLE query expressions
- hash indexes in wal
- PGFDW: push down aggregates
- SCRAM authentication

... seems like the "other features" list should be longer.

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Re: Assembling "top features" list for beta announcement

Peter Eisentraut-6
In reply to this post by Josh Berkus-6
On 4/7/17 20:36, Josh Berkus wrote:
> On 04/07/2017 02:42 PM, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
>>> - pglogical logical replication
>> Note that "pglogical" != "built-in logical replication" (or whatever you
>> want to call the latter).
>
> Clarify?

They are two different implementations that do similar things.

- https://www.postgresql.org/docs/devel/static/logical-replication.html
- https://2ndquadrant.com/en/resources/pglogical/

Only the first one is a feature of PostgreSQL 10.

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Re: Assembling "top features" list for beta announcement

Peter Eisentraut-6
In reply to this post by Josh Berkus-6
On 4/7/17 20:40, Josh Berkus wrote:

> So, lemme update the running list:
>
> Banner Features:
>
> - pglogical
> - new partitioning
> - quorum sync rep
> - parallel index scan, bitmap scan, and merge join
>
> Other Features:
>
> - XMLTABLE query expressions
> - hash indexes in wal
> - PGFDW: push down aggregates
> - SCRAM authentication
>
> ... seems like the "other features" list should be longer.

Some more possibilities:

- better defaults for replication/online backups out of the box
- ICU support
- extended statistics (better performance for certain queries?)
- executor performance improvements

Also note that parallel query is now on by default, whereas it was
disabled by default in 9.6.

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Re: Assembling "top features" list for beta announcement

Kevin Grittner-7
In reply to this post by Thomas Kellerer
On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 5:35 PM, Thomas Kellerer <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Kevin Grittner schrieb am 08.04.2017 um 00:01:
>>
>> I don't think it merits top 2-4 features, but transition tables for
>> AFTER triggers is a SQL standard feature that I think most products
>> have had and we have not ... until v10.
>
> I think only SQL Server and DB2 have that.

SAP SQL Anywhere also supports it and Sybase ASE supports the
capability, but with fixed names for the transition tables (inserted
and deleted).

> Oracle has no such thing for their statement level trigger (it can be
> implemented using a compound trigger and a temporary table)
>
> MySQL has no statement level triggers

SAP MaxDB and SQLite are in the same camp as MySQL in this regard --
no support for it.

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Re: Assembling "top features" list for beta announcement

Andreas Karlsson
In reply to this post by Kevin Grittner-7
On 04/08/2017 12:01 AM, Kevin Grittner wrote:
> I don't think it merits top 2-4 features, but transition tables for
> AFTER triggers is a SQL standard feature that I think most products
> have had and we have not ... until v10.

I think this will be a pretty huge feature for some users, so probably
worth including among the significant features.

Andreas


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123