CRM where pg is a first class citizen?

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CRM where pg is a first class citizen?

Ivan Sergio Borgonovo
Hi,

I was looking for a open source CRM, PHP or python based, with a large
community where Postgresql is a first class citizen.

I'd prefer ease of use over features.

Thanks

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Re: CRM where pg is a first class citizen?

Joshua D. Drake
On 12/13/2016 08:58 AM, Ivan Sergio Borgonovo wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I was looking for a open source CRM, PHP or python based, with a large
> community where Postgresql is a first class citizen.
>
> I'd prefer ease of use over features.

DjangoCMS
Drupal 7+

JD


>
> Thanks
>


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Re: CRM where pg is a first class citizen?

John R Pierce
On 12/13/2016 10:19 AM, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
I was looking for a open source CRM, PHP or python based, with a large
community where Postgresql is a first class citizen.

I'd prefer ease of use over features.

DjangoCMS
Drupal 7+

CRM (Customer Relationship Manager) != CMS (Content Management System).


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Re: CRM where pg is a first class citizen?

Joshua D. Drake
On 12/13/2016 12:19 PM, John R Pierce wrote:

> On 12/13/2016 10:19 AM, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>>> I was looking for a open source CRM, PHP or python based, with a large
>>> community where Postgresql is a first class citizen.
>>>
>>> I'd prefer ease of use over features.
>>
>> DjangoCMS
>> Drupal 7+
>
> CRM (Customer Relationship Manager) != CMS (Content Management System).

Correct, sorry, even after I read your email I had to read it twice. Go
Acronyms!

Tryton is an ERP that has CRM functionality. Although it is a bit of a
beast.

JD

>
>
> --
> john r pierce, recycling bits in santa cruz
>


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Re: CRM where pg is a first class citizen?

John R Pierce
On 12/13/2016 12:24 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>
> Tryton is an ERP that has CRM functionality. Although it is a bit of a
> beast.

indeed, most any ERP is pretty much a kitchen sink, trying to be all
things.    AR/AP/PR/PO/Inventory/etc/etc/etc.


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Re: CRM where pg is a first class citizen?

Rich Shepard
In reply to this post by John R Pierce
On Tue, 13 Dec 2016, John R Pierce wrote:

> CRM (Customer Relationship Manager) != CMS (Content Management System).

John,

   True, and Django can be used for a CRM; there's an example by a North
Carolina shop. Search the web for "django crm". I was going to use django
but decided to make my CRM a stand-alone application.

Rich


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Re: CRM where pg is a first class citizen?

George Weaver
In reply to this post by Joshua D. Drake
I've never used it but what about:

https://developer.sugarcrm.com/2012/08/03/like-postgresql-and-want-to-use-it-with-sugarcrm-check-out-a-new-community-project/

Cheers,
George

On 13/12/2016 2:24 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote:

> On 12/13/2016 12:19 PM, John R Pierce wrote:
>> On 12/13/2016 10:19 AM, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>>>> I was looking for a open source CRM, PHP or python based, with a large
>>>> community where Postgresql is a first class citizen.
>>>>
>>>> I'd prefer ease of use over features.
>>>
>>> DjangoCMS
>>> Drupal 7+
>>
>> CRM (Customer Relationship Manager) != CMS (Content Management System).
>
> Correct, sorry, even after I read your email I had to read it twice.
> Go Acronyms!
>
> Tryton is an ERP that has CRM functionality. Although it is a bit of a
> beast.
>
> JD
>
>>
>>
>> --
>> john r pierce, recycling bits in santa cruz
>>
>
>

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Re: CRM where pg is a first class citizen?

Adam Brusselback
On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 3:36 PM, George Weaver <[hidden email]> wrote:
I've never used it but what about:

https://developer.sugarcrm.com/2012/08/03/like-postgresql-and-want-to-use-it-with-sugarcrm-check-out-a-new-community-project/

Cheers,
George

Looks like not much came out of it: https://community.sugarcrm.com/ideas/1503

They seem hesitant to support PG because of "market demand" which kinda sucks, since actions like that are part of the reason for Postgres' lower adoption rate than MySQL. 
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Re: CRM where pg is a first class citizen?

Ivan Sergio Borgonovo
In reply to this post by George Weaver
On 12/13/2016 09:36 PM, George Weaver wrote:
> I've never used it but what about:
>
> https://developer.sugarcrm.com/2012/08/03/like-postgresql-and-want-to-use-it-with-sugarcrm-check-out-a-new-community-project/

That's one of the first thing I've read and it doesn't look as a good
premise to make pg a first class citizen.

BTW

Joshua D. Drake cited Drupal 7+

Drupal was the reason I started using postgres back in the days and it
has been one of the reasons I was bothering you all on this list more
frequently few years ago.

I've spent a pretty huge amount of time locally patching Drupal to make
it work with postgresql and to try to push some of the patches upstream.

I don't develop on Drupal anymore but up to at least D7 Postgresql was
still not a first class citizen.

I've heard DB abstraction layer in D8 is much better but I don't have
anything critical on Drupal anymore and life is too short to fight to
see your patches refused from upstream because "supporting postgres is
holding us back".
Considering that most PHP web applications are not optimized for any DB
and I wonder what features could a developer exploit to optimize for
mysql, that's really a shame.

I don't want to repeat the experience, especially on software I'm just
going to use and not develop on.

Forgive me for I have sinned: last Drupal I've installed was 7 and I
picked up mysql and I still feel awkward when I've to deal with it.

I'm using horde on postgres. Postgres is not a first class citizen in
Horde but at least they were happy and quick to merge a couple of my
patches.

Working with pg was fun, it was a very nice piece of software, it has a
great community and it got even better.
I'm not anymore a hardcore user but I still enjoy using it.

There are much more services offering Postgres on the internet (Amazon,
Heroku, OpenStack...).
Lack of proper support from "web applications" still drives me nuts.

It comes to no surprise that Python and Java "web applications" tend to
support postgres better.
Python would be absolutely welcome, but I don't have that much
experience managing Java on the web.


https://www.odoo.com/ supports postgres but it is an ERP and it is far
more complicated than I would like.

--
Ivan Sergio Borgonovo
http://www.webthatworks.it http://www.borgonovo.net



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Re: CRM where pg is a first class citizen?

Adrian Klaver-4
In reply to this post by George Weaver
On 12/13/2016 12:36 PM, George Weaver wrote:
> I've never used it but what about:
>
> https://developer.sugarcrm.com/2012/08/03/like-postgresql-and-want-to-use-it-with-sugarcrm-check-out-a-new-community-project/

This killed the community(Open Source) edition going forward:

https://community.sugarcrm.com/thread/18434

>
>
> Cheers,
> George
>
> On 13/12/2016 2:24 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>> On 12/13/2016 12:19 PM, John R Pierce wrote:
>>> On 12/13/2016 10:19 AM, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>>>>> I was looking for a open source CRM, PHP or python based, with a large
>>>>> community where Postgresql is a first class citizen.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd prefer ease of use over features.
>>>>
>>>> DjangoCMS
>>>> Drupal 7+
>>>
>>> CRM (Customer Relationship Manager) != CMS (Content Management System).
>>
>> Correct, sorry, even after I read your email I had to read it twice.
>> Go Acronyms!
>>
>> Tryton is an ERP that has CRM functionality. Although it is a bit of a
>> beast.
>>
>> JD
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> john r pierce, recycling bits in santa cruz
>>>
>>
>>
>


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Re: CRM where pg is a first class citizen?

Rich Shepard
On Tue, 13 Dec 2016, Adrian Klaver wrote:

> This killed the community(Open Source) edition going forward:
> https://community.sugarcrm.com/thread/18434

   I'd like to comment regarding this paragraph from the above-referenced
blog post:

"In the course of the past five years, we have surveyed tens of thousands of
Sugar Community Edition users and found that we see two types of users of
Sugar Community Edition: 1) developers that wish to build on an open source
CRM platform, and 2) users, generally first time CRM users, that are looking
for a free/inexpensive CRM solution. We don’t believe that the current Sugar
Community Edition serves both audiences effectively. We envision an open
source solution targeted exclusively for developers. And, we also envision a
simpler way for first-time CRM users to find and use CRM."

   This is an interesting perspective, but not surprising for a large
for-profit corporation like SugarCRM.

   I'm an environmental consultant sole practitioner and have been looking
for years for a postgres-supporting CRM that I could use. There is none.
Every business is different and has different needs. This is why a generic
CRM like Sugar that tries to fit every business regardless of type or size
forces its customers to fit into their generic model rather than supporting
a developer _and_ end-user framework that can be customized for each
business's specific needs and way of working.

   That's why I'm developing my own using PyQt5, Python3, psychpg2, and
postgres-9.6.

   The django example I mentioned in an earlier post is written for software
companies; so is a PHP-based one (XRMS) that was abandoned a decade ago.
Product providers are different from service providers and small companies
(or solo practitioners). Neither fit my needs.

   I have the postgres schema that works for me and am willing to share it
with others because of this thread. I had not planned on putting it on
GitHub, but see no reason not to do so if there's interest by others. I'm
starting to learn PyQt5 and Python3 after a decade of wxPython use with
Python2 and am just about ready to start creating the UI.

Rich







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Re: CRM where pg is a first class citizen?

Ivan Sergio Borgonovo
In reply to this post by Adrian Klaver-4
On 12/13/2016 10:49 PM, Adrian Klaver wrote:
> On 12/13/2016 12:36 PM, George Weaver wrote:
>> I've never used it but what about:
>>
>> https://developer.sugarcrm.com/2012/08/03/like-postgresql-and-want-to-use-it-with-sugarcrm-check-out-a-new-community-project/
>>
>
> This killed the community(Open Source) edition going forward:
>
> https://community.sugarcrm.com/thread/18434

There are several forks. It is not even clear if the forks support pg
and that's not a good start.

Wikipedia lists:

https://www.dolibarr.org/ (EPR) seems a bit messy
http://epe.si/ (CRM) not clear workflow
http://www.tryton.org/ (EPR) very postgres oriented, same family of odoo

supporting postgres.

Still looking for some good advice.

--
Ivan Sergio Borgonovo
http://www.webthatworks.it http://www.borgonovo.net



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Re: CRM where pg is a first class citizen?

Ivan Sergio Borgonovo
In reply to this post by Rich Shepard


On 12/13/2016 11:45 PM, Rich Shepard wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Dec 2016, Adrian Klaver wrote:
>
>> This killed the community(Open Source) edition going forward:
>> https://community.sugarcrm.com/thread/18434
>
>   I'd like to comment regarding this paragraph from the above-referenced
> blog post:

> "In the course of the past five years, we have surveyed tens of
> thousands of
> Sugar Community Edition users and found that we see two types of users of
> Sugar Community Edition: 1) developers that wish to build on an open source
> CRM platform, and 2) users, generally first time CRM users, that are
> looking
> for a free/inexpensive CRM solution. We don’t believe that the current
> Sugar
> Community Edition serves both audiences effectively. We envision an open
> source solution targeted exclusively for developers. And, we also
> envision a
> simpler way for first-time CRM users to find and use CRM."

>   This is an interesting perspective, but not surprising for a large
> for-profit corporation like SugarCRM.

>   I'm an environmental consultant sole practitioner and have been looking
> for years for a postgres-supporting CRM that I could use. There is none.
> Every business is different and has different needs. This is why a generic
> CRM like Sugar that tries to fit every business regardless of type or size
> forces its customers to fit into their generic model rather than supporting
> a developer _and_ end-user framework that can be customized for each
> business's specific needs and way of working.

This reminds me of Drupal and the companies driving its development again...
Drupal was interesting because it was a packaged product and a framework.

Most SME can't afford customization of ERP and accounting programs (if
you're not including invoice formatting).
SalesForce is not offering custom products and it is still pretty
successful.

While at least here in Italy I think most accounting programs are a
trap, I've realized that most of the times SME should learn from the
procedures proposed by CRM/ERP/accounting programs and adapt rather than
customize.
Processes are generally not scientifically planned, rather built up as
they go. A program that has been built to serve many through years may
not be optimal but at least tend to be more rational.

Still I'm not looking for something perfect, but something simple with
low maintenance.


*Postgres in this case is one of the ingredients of low maintenance or
at least maintenance I'm familiar with.*


>   That's why I'm developing my own using PyQt5, Python3, psychpg2, and
> postgres-9.6.

>   I have the postgres schema that works for me and am willing to share it
> with others because of this thread. I had not planned on putting it on
> GitHub, but see no reason not to do so if there's interest by others. I'm
> starting to learn PyQt5 and Python3 after a decade of wxPython use with
> Python2 and am just about ready to start creating the UI.

Unfortunately I don't want to depend on something I'll have to put
developing resources in and I need something that work reasonably quickly.

But I admit that considering the few requirement I have I spent a couple
of seconds considering the idea to write one.

Nothing bad could come out by publishing your code on Github and if not
to contribute I'll surely give a look to learn something.

--
Ivan Sergio Borgonovo
http://www.webthatworks.it http://www.borgonovo.net



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Re: CRM where pg is a first class citizen?

Peter Devoy
>I was looking for a open source CRM, PHP or python based, with a large community where Postgresql is a first class citizen.

About 20 months ago when I started trading I settled for EspoCRM which
uses PHP + MySQL.  Despite some bugs I was quite enjoying it before my
local VPS company disappeared without paying their datacentre bills.
I did submit a pull request for one bug and it was accepted quickly.

If a few people are interested it may not be too laborious to add
Postgres support, it looks like the database code could use
improvement anyway:
https://github.com/espocrm/espocrm/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=PDO

KR

Peter


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Re: CRM where pg is a first class citizen?

John DeSoi
In reply to this post by Ivan Sergio Borgonovo

> On Dec 13, 2016, at 3:25 PM, Ivan Sergio Borgonovo <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I don't develop on Drupal anymore but up to at least D7 Postgresql was still not a first class citizen.
>
> I've heard DB abstraction layer in D8 is much better but I don't have anything critical on Drupal anymore and life is too short to fight to see your patches refused from upstream because "supporting postgres is holding us back".
> Considering that most PHP web applications are not optimized for any DB and I wonder what features could a developer exploit to optimize for mysql, that's really a shame.
>
> I don't want to repeat the experience, especially on software I'm just going to use and not develop on.
>
> Forgive me for I have sinned: last Drupal I've installed was 7 and I picked up mysql and I still feel awkward when I've to deal with it.


I have been using Drupal with Postgres since 2005. Yes, there are sometimes issues, but it is rarely a problem unless you expect every third party module to support Postgres. All of the core modules work well with Postgres. The database abstraction layer works for the most part. The main benefit of Drupal is to get a base website up and going quickly. You can then write your own custom (Postgres only) module to implement the non-core features you need.

John DeSoi, Ph.D.

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Re: CRM where pg is a first class citizen?

Murtuza Zabuawala
Also check Odoo (Python & PostgreSQL) & it has large community support.


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On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 8:58 AM, John DeSoi <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Dec 13, 2016, at 3:25 PM, Ivan Sergio Borgonovo <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I don't develop on Drupal anymore but up to at least D7 Postgresql was still not a first class citizen.
>
> I've heard DB abstraction layer in D8 is much better but I don't have anything critical on Drupal anymore and life is too short to fight to see your patches refused from upstream because "supporting postgres is holding us back".
> Considering that most PHP web applications are not optimized for any DB and I wonder what features could a developer exploit to optimize for mysql, that's really a shame.
>
> I don't want to repeat the experience, especially on software I'm just going to use and not develop on.
>
> Forgive me for I have sinned: last Drupal I've installed was 7 and I picked up mysql and I still feel awkward when I've to deal with it.


I have been using Drupal with Postgres since 2005. Yes, there are sometimes issues, but it is rarely a problem unless you expect every third party module to support Postgres. All of the core modules work well with Postgres. The database abstraction layer works for the most part. The main benefit of Drupal is to get a base website up and going quickly. You can then write your own custom (Postgres only) module to implement the non-core features you need.

John DeSoi, Ph.D.

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