Has anyone seen this marketing gimmick? EnterpriseDB vs MySQL vs MariaDB

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Has anyone seen this marketing gimmick? EnterpriseDB vs MySQL vs MariaDB

Joshua Kramer-3
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Re: Has anyone seen this marketing gimmick? EnterpriseDB vs MySQL vs MariaDB

Stephen Cook-2
On 2017-09-11 21:39, Joshua Kramer wrote:
> http://go.mariadb.com/GLBL-WBN_2017-09-19CageMatchIntegratedCampaign_RegistrationLP.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=paid-social&utm_campaign=2017-cage-match-webinar-boost
>
> This is tomorrow, if you are on US time.


Looks like it is next Tuesday.

It's presented by the "Senior Director of Product Marketing" for
MariaDB. What do you expect him to do, give a true and unbiased
presentation about the benefits of the competition? Ha ha ha


-- Stephen


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Re: Has anyone seen this marketing gimmick? EnterpriseDB vs MySQL vs MariaDB

Darren Duncan
On 2017-09-11 7:19 PM, Stephen Cook wrote:

> On 2017-09-11 21:39, Joshua Kramer wrote:
>> http://go.mariadb.com/GLBL-WBN_2017-09-19CageMatchIntegratedCampaign_RegistrationLP.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=paid-social&utm_campaign=2017-cage-match-webinar-boost
>>
>> This is tomorrow, if you are on US time.
>
> Looks like it is next Tuesday.
>
> It's presented by the "Senior Director of Product Marketing" for
> MariaDB. What do you expect him to do, give a true and unbiased
> presentation about the benefits of the competition? Ha ha ha

It could be worse.  They could decline to mention Postgres at all (just as they
declined to mention several other open source DBMSs).  The fact that this talk
is comparing with Postgres, the Postgres name is getting out there in front of
more people, even if the presentation itself is biased against it.  Some people
choosing to watch the presentation may actually use it as evidence to prefer
Postgres for their needs. -- Darren Duncan



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Re: Has anyone seen this marketing gimmick? EnterpriseDB vs MySQL vs MariaDB

Gavin Flower-2
In reply to this post by Stephen Cook-2
On 12/09/17 14:19, Stephen Cook wrote:

> On 2017-09-11 21:39, Joshua Kramer wrote:
>> http://go.mariadb.com/GLBL-WBN_2017-09-19CageMatchIntegratedCampaign_RegistrationLP.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=paid-social&utm_campaign=2017-cage-match-webinar-boost
>>
>> This is tomorrow, if you are on US time.
>
> Looks like it is next Tuesday.
>
> It's presented by the "Senior Director of Product Marketing" for
> MariaDB. What do you expect him to do, give a true and unbiased
> presentation about the benefits of the competition? Ha ha ha
>
>
> -- Stephen
>
>
I'd expect PostgreSQL to do well against MariaDB and Oracle in all 4
categories listed at that URL.  Obviously EnterpriseDB is in demand and
some companies value paying a premium for their services, but may be a
bit pricey for some people - but I know that EnterpriseDB gives back to
the community.

So apart from a senior executive of MariaDB presenting having an obvious
bias, I suspect that the fact that he is not comparing to PostgreSQL:
means that he will harp on about EnterpriseDB being expensive and not
being as committed to Open Source as much as MariaDB (how valid that
latter concern is, I have no idea - but I strongly suspect it will be
painted worse than it is!).

My perception is that PostgreSQL (& EnterpriseDB) developers are more
concerned with data integrity and standards than MariaDB - even at the
expense of gimmicky innovations.  I started looking at PostgreSQL back
in 2004, even then I found it better than MySQL in all categories I
cared about - and I never understood why anyone would think that
PostgreSQL was harder to use.

I hope some PostgreSQL & EnterpriseDB heavyweights will be there!


Cheers,
Gavin




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Re: Has anyone seen this marketing gimmick? EnterpriseDB vs MySQL vs MariaDB

Jan Karremans
Looks interesting. I have at least registered to see what their angle will be...

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Re: Has anyone seen this marketing gimmick? EnterpriseDB vs MySQL vs MariaDB

Stephen Frost
In reply to this post by Darren Duncan
Darren, all,

* Darren Duncan ([hidden email]) wrote:

> On 2017-09-11 7:19 PM, Stephen Cook wrote:
> >On 2017-09-11 21:39, Joshua Kramer wrote:
> >>http://go.mariadb.com/GLBL-WBN_2017-09-19CageMatchIntegratedCampaign_RegistrationLP.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=paid-social&utm_campaign=2017-cage-match-webinar-boost
> >>
> >>This is tomorrow, if you are on US time.
> >
> >Looks like it is next Tuesday.
> >
> >It's presented by the "Senior Director of Product Marketing" for
> >MariaDB. What do you expect him to do, give a true and unbiased
> >presentation about the benefits of the competition? Ha ha ha
>
> It could be worse.  They could decline to mention Postgres at all
> (just as they declined to mention several other open source DBMSs).
Unfortunately, they aren't really talking about PG there, it would seem.

Or, if they are, they've completely misunderstood that PG is not one
company's product but rather an independent open source project which
has lots of companies contributing to it.

If they really wanted to contrast 'open source commitment' between the
various vendors, they probably should have considered including the
company that actually commits the most code to PG too, but that's
starting to show my own bias.

Thanks!

Stephen

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Re: Has anyone seen this marketing gimmick? EnterpriseDB vs MySQL vs MariaDB

Simon Riggs
On 12 September 2017 at 13:11, Stephen Frost <[hidden email]> wrote:

> If they really wanted to contrast 'open source commitment' between the
> various vendors, they probably should have considered including the
> company that actually commits the most code to PG too, but that's
> starting to show my own bias.

It certainly would be very generous of you to mention 2ndQuadrant, thank you.

--
Simon Riggs                http://www.2ndQuadrant.com/
PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Remote DBA, Training & Services


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Re: Has anyone seen this marketing gimmick? EnterpriseDB vs MySQL vs MariaDB

Stephen Frost
Simon,

* Simon Riggs ([hidden email]) wrote:
> On 12 September 2017 at 13:11, Stephen Frost <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > If they really wanted to contrast 'open source commitment' between the
> > various vendors, they probably should have considered including the
> > company that actually commits the most code to PG too, but that's
> > starting to show my own bias.
>
> It certainly would be very generous of you to mention 2ndQuadrant, thank you.

I had been avoiding mentioning any specific compnay names; the point
being that there clearly was little research done by the folks that put
together this upcoming talk into who is doing what in the Postgres
space.

I agree that it would have been good for them to include all of the
major players when it comes to PG and not just focus on one.  The
unfortunate reality is that in many other projects there's "the one" big
company behind the open source project and few realize that PG has such
a great and diverse multi-company ecosystem, even though many of us make
a point to bring it up whenever we get the chance.

What might be interesting to discuss here is what more we can be doing
to make it clear that the PostgreSQL project is independent of any
single company and instead has contributions from many, not unlike the
Linux Foundation or the Python Foundation.

Thanks!

Stephen

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Re: Has anyone seen this marketing gimmick? EnterpriseDB vs MySQL vs MariaDB

Chris Travers-5


On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 3:42 PM, Stephen Frost <[hidden email]> wrote:
Simon,

* Simon Riggs ([hidden email]) wrote:
> On 12 September 2017 at 13:11, Stephen Frost <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > If they really wanted to contrast 'open source commitment' between the
> > various vendors, they probably should have considered including the
> > company that actually commits the most code to PG too, but that's
> > starting to show my own bias.
>
> It certainly would be very generous of you to mention 2ndQuadrant, thank you.

I had been avoiding mentioning any specific compnay names; the point
being that there clearly was little research done by the folks that put
together this upcoming talk into who is doing what in the Postgres
space.

I agree that it would have been good for them to include all of the
major players when it comes to PG and not just focus on one.  The
unfortunate reality is that in many other projects there's "the one" big
company behind the open source project and few realize that PG has such
a great and diverse multi-company ecosystem, even though many of us make
a point to bring it up whenever we get the chance.

I agree with these points.  Of course a competitive overview by a competitor might be taking a different approach for one or a number of other reasons.  For example if price is one thing they are covering, things would be different if they are covering the official version of the software. 

What might be interesting to discuss here is what more we can be doing
to make it clear that the PostgreSQL project is independent of any
single company and instead has contributions from many, not unlike the
Linux Foundation or the Python Foundation.

100% agreed on that point.



 

Thanks!

Stephen



--
Best Wishes,
Chris Travers

Efficito:  Hosted Accounting and ERP.  Robust and Flexible.  No vendor lock-in.
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Re: Has anyone seen this marketing gimmick? EnterpriseDB vs MySQL vs MariaDB

Jan Karremans
Could it just be that they are scared of PostgreSQL and now single out EDB as a target for a specific market?

On 12 sep. 2017, at 15:51, Chris Travers <[hidden email]> wrote:



On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 3:42 PM, Stephen Frost <[hidden email]> wrote:
Simon,

* Simon Riggs ([hidden email]) wrote:
> On 12 September 2017 at 13:11, Stephen Frost <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > If they really wanted to contrast 'open source commitment' between the
> > various vendors, they probably should have considered including the
> > company that actually commits the most code to PG too, but that's
> > starting to show my own bias.
>
> It certainly would be very generous of you to mention 2ndQuadrant, thank you.

I had been avoiding mentioning any specific compnay names; the point
being that there clearly was little research done by the folks that put
together this upcoming talk into who is doing what in the Postgres
space.

I agree that it would have been good for them to include all of the
major players when it comes to PG and not just focus on one.  The
unfortunate reality is that in many other projects there's "the one" big
company behind the open source project and few realize that PG has such
a great and diverse multi-company ecosystem, even though many of us make
a point to bring it up whenever we get the chance.

I agree with these points.  Of course a competitive overview by a competitor might be taking a different approach for one or a number of other reasons.  For example if price is one thing they are covering, things would be different if they are covering the official version of the software. 

What might be interesting to discuss here is what more we can be doing
to make it clear that the PostgreSQL project is independent of any
single company and instead has contributions from many, not unlike the
Linux Foundation or the Python Foundation.

100% agreed on that point.



 

Thanks!

Stephen



-- 
Best Wishes,
Chris Travers

Efficito:  Hosted Accounting and ERP.  Robust and Flexible.  No vendor lock-in.

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Re: Has anyone seen this marketing gimmick? EnterpriseDB vs MySQL vs MariaDB

Robert Bernier-5

On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 03:53:59 PM Jan Karremans wrote:
> Could it just be that they are scared of PostgreSQL and now single out EDB as a target for a specific market?

Keep in mind, all they're trying to do is sell themselves where all the arguments are targeted specifically for whom they wish to address i.e. companies requiring technical support and find it cost effective to farm out 'consulting' services.

--
Robert Bernier




>
> > On 12 sep. 2017, at 15:51, Chris Travers <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 3:42 PM, Stephen Frost <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> > Simon,
> >
> > * Simon Riggs ([hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>) wrote:
> > > On 12 September 2017 at 13:11, Stephen Frost <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> > >
> > > > If they really wanted to contrast 'open source commitment' between the
> > > > various vendors, they probably should have considered including the
> > > > company that actually commits the most code to PG too, but that's
> > > > starting to show my own bias.
> > >
> > > It certainly would be very generous of you to mention 2ndQuadrant, thank you.
> >
> > I had been avoiding mentioning any specific compnay names; the point
> > being that there clearly was little research done by the folks that put
> > together this upcoming talk into who is doing what in the Postgres
> > space.
> >
> > I agree that it would have been good for them to include all of the
> > major players when it comes to PG and not just focus on one.  The
> > unfortunate reality is that in many other projects there's "the one" big
> > company behind the open source project and few realize that PG has such
> > a great and diverse multi-company ecosystem, even though many of us make
> > a point to bring it up whenever we get the chance.
> >
> > I agree with these points.  Of course a competitive overview by a competitor might be taking a different approach for one or a number of other reasons.  For example if price is one thing they are covering, things would be different if they are covering the official version of the software.
> >
> > What might be interesting to discuss here is what more we can be doing
> > to make it clear that the PostgreSQL project is independent of any
> > single company and instead has contributions from many, not unlike the
> > Linux Foundation or the Python Foundation.
> >
> > 100% agreed on that point.
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Stephen
> >
> >
> >
>



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Re: Has anyone seen this marketing gimmick? EnterpriseDB vs MySQL vs MariaDB

Jonathan S. Katz-3
In reply to this post by Stephen Frost

> On Sep 12, 2017, at 9:42 AM, Stephen Frost <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Simon,
>
> * Simon Riggs ([hidden email]) wrote:
>> On 12 September 2017 at 13:11, Stephen Frost <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> If they really wanted to contrast 'open source commitment' between the
>>> various vendors, they probably should have considered including the
>>> company that actually commits the most code to PG too, but that's
>>> starting to show my own bias.
>>
>> It certainly would be very generous of you to mention 2ndQuadrant, thank you.
>
> What might be interesting to discuss here is what more we can be doing
> to make it clear that the PostgreSQL project is independent of any
> single company and instead has contributions from many, not unlike the
> Linux Foundation or the Python Foundation.

That’s the big takeaway.

Like a lot of “cage matches,” the outcome is predetermined for the audience, so I think it’s wasted energy to overanalyze how they are going to present PostgreSQL because we know it won’t be #1 from that context.  One big advantage the PostgreSQL community has is the fact it is decentralized and it is in the best interests of all the major PostgreSQL contributors to promote utilizing PostgreSQL.  A lot of this is happening organically too, as more people and organizations are adopting PostgreSQL than ever before thus creating a viral, self-fulfilling cycle.

In short: we just need to keep building a superior product, provide best-in-class support, and let people know about it.

Jonathan

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Re: Has anyone seen this marketing gimmick? EnterpriseDB vs MySQL vs MariaDB

Joe Conway
In reply to this post by Chris Travers-5
On 09/12/2017 06:51 AM, Chris Travers wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 3:42 PM, Stephen Frost wrote:
>> I agree that it would have been good for them to include all of the
>> major players when it comes to PG and not just focus on one.  The
>> unfortunate reality is that in many other projects there's "the one" big
>> company behind the open source project and few realize that PG has such
>> a great and diverse multi-company ecosystem, even though many of us make
>> a point to bring it up whenever we get the chance.
>
> I agree with these points.  Of course a competitive overview by a
> competitor might be taking a different approach for one or a number of
> other reasons.  For example if price is one thing they are covering,
> things would be different if they are covering the official version of
> the software.
More to the point, they are not even true to their stated thesis:

  "world’s largest organizations are using strategic initiatives to
   replace proprietary databases and expensive licenses with open source
   databases and enterprise subscriptions"

as the referenced version of postgres is a proprietary fork, not open
source.

Joe

--
Crunchy Data - http://crunchydata.com
PostgreSQL Support for Secure Enterprises
Consulting, Training, & Open Source Development


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Re: Has anyone seen this marketing gimmick? EnterpriseDB vs MySQL vs MariaDB

Oleg Bartunov-2
In reply to this post by Stephen Frost
On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 4:42 PM, Stephen Frost <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Simon,
>
> * Simon Riggs ([hidden email]) wrote:
>> On 12 September 2017 at 13:11, Stephen Frost <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> > If they really wanted to contrast 'open source commitment' between the
>> > various vendors, they probably should have considered including the
>> > company that actually commits the most code to PG too, but that's
>> > starting to show my own bias.
>>
>> It certainly would be very generous of you to mention 2ndQuadrant, thank you.
>
> I had been avoiding mentioning any specific compnay names; the point
> being that there clearly was little research done by the folks that put
> together this upcoming talk into who is doing what in the Postgres
> space.
>
> I agree that it would have been good for them to include all of the
> major players when it comes to PG and not just focus on one.  The
> unfortunate reality is that in many other projects there's "the one" big
> company behind the open source project and few realize that PG has such
> a great and diverse multi-company ecosystem, even though many of us make
> a point to bring it up whenever we get the chance.
>
> What might be interesting to discuss here is what more we can be doing
> to make it clear that the PostgreSQL project is independent of any
> single company and instead has contributions from many, not unlike the
> Linux Foundation or the Python Foundation.

This is what I always said in Russia, that our community is truly
independent hardcore open source community.  Is there any plan for
Postgres promotion at any major opensource conferences like Fosdem ?
We might submit a talk to main track and explain people the difference
(philosophical) between Postgres and MySQL/MariaDB, for example.

>
> Thanks!
>
> Stephen


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Re: Has anyone seen this marketing gimmick? EnterpriseDB vs MySQL vs MariaDB

Stephen Frost
Oleg,

* Oleg Bartunov ([hidden email]) wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 4:42 PM, Stephen Frost <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > What might be interesting to discuss here is what more we can be doing
> > to make it clear that the PostgreSQL project is independent of any
> > single company and instead has contributions from many, not unlike the
> > Linux Foundation or the Python Foundation.
>
> This is what I always said in Russia, that our community is truly
> independent hardcore open source community.  Is there any plan for
> Postgres promotion at any major opensource conferences like Fosdem ?

Promotion of PostgreSQL at FOSDEM, specifically, is handled by PgEU,
similar to how promotion at SCALE in the US is handled by PgUS.

> We might submit a talk to main track and explain people the difference
> (philosophical) between Postgres and MySQL/MariaDB, for example.

That's certainly an interesting idea and the FOSDEM PG room is nearly
always completely full, so you're likely to get a good audience for such
a talk, assuming it gets accepted.  We could try to do something similar
at SCALE too.

Thanks!

Stephen

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Re: Has anyone seen this marketing gimmick? EnterpriseDB vs MySQL vs MariaDB

Joshua Drake-2
In reply to this post by Stephen Frost
On 09/12/2017 05:11 AM, Stephen Frost wrote:
> Darren, all,

>> It could be worse.  They could decline to mention Postgres at all
>> (just as they declined to mention several other open source DBMSs).
>
> Unfortunately, they aren't really talking about PG there, it would seem.

They aren't, they are talking about products of which PG is not.

>
> Or, if they are, they've completely misunderstood that PG is not one
> company's product but rather an independent open source project which
> has lots of companies contributing to it.

The audience isn't FOSS developers, or FOSS community, it is companies.
Companies (except in our very narrow view of the world) want products
not projects.

It is pretty standard and it just shows how well EnterpriseDB has
penetrated the commercial market. They are by far the number one name in
the Postgres "product" space.

Thanks,

JD


--
Command Prompt, Inc. || http://the.postgres.company/ || @cmdpromptinc

PostgreSQL Centered full stack support, consulting and development.
Advocate: @amplifypostgres || Learn: https://pgconf.us
*****     Unless otherwise stated, opinions are my own.   *****


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Re: Has anyone seen this marketing gimmick? EnterpriseDB vs MySQL vs MariaDB

Joshua Drake-2
In reply to this post by Simon Riggs
On 09/12/2017 06:06 AM, Simon Riggs wrote:
> On 12 September 2017 at 13:11, Stephen Frost <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> If they really wanted to contrast 'open source commitment' between the
>> various vendors, they probably should have considered including the
>> company that actually commits the most code to PG too, but that's
>> starting to show my own bias.
>
> It certainly would be very generous of you to mention 2ndQuadrant, thank you.

Regardless of company, code contribution is only a single metric among
an entire vat of grease that lubricates the wheel that turns this community.

JD


--
Command Prompt, Inc. || http://the.postgres.company/ || @cmdpromptinc

PostgreSQL Centered full stack support, consulting and development.
Advocate: @amplifypostgres || Learn: https://pgconf.us
*****     Unless otherwise stated, opinions are my own.   *****


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Re: Has anyone seen this marketing gimmick? EnterpriseDB vs MySQL vs MariaDB

Jussi Mikkola-2
But this story is not about PostgreSQL. This is about MariaDB. Their choise is what supports their story. Had they made a better story with another company that supports PostgreSQL, they would have chosen it. This has nothing to do with PostgreSQL or companies related to it. Also, this is not about what a company has committed to pg. This is what they (MariaDB) tell from their side that they can make people believe.

Rgs,

Jussi


On Tue, 12/09/2017 23:17, "Joshua D. Drake" <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 09/12/2017 06:06 AM, Simon Riggs wrote:
> On 12 September 2017 at 13:11, Stephen Frost " target="_blank"><[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> If they really wanted to contrast 'open source commitment' between the
>> various vendors, they probably should have considered including the
>> company that actually commits the most code to PG too, but that's
>> starting to show my own bias.
>
> It certainly would be very generous of you to mention 2ndQuadrant, thank you.

Regardless of company, code contribution is only a single metric among
an entire vat of grease that lubricates the wheel that turns this community.

JD


--
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PostgreSQL Centered full stack support, consulting and development.
Advocate: @amplifypostgres || Learn: https://pgconf.us
***** Unless otherwise stated, opinions are my own. *****


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Re: Has anyone seen this marketing gimmick? EnterpriseDB vs MySQL vs MariaDB

Robert Haas
In reply to this post by Simon Riggs
On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 9:06 AM, Simon Riggs <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 12 September 2017 at 13:11, Stephen Frost <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> If they really wanted to contrast 'open source commitment' between the
>> various vendors, they probably should have considered including the
>> company that actually commits the most code to PG too, but that's
>> starting to show my own bias.
>
> It certainly would be very generous of you to mention 2ndQuadrant, thank you.

Nope.  At the moment, the company that commits the most code to
PostgreSQL is whoever is of course Crunchy, because they employ Tom
Lane.  (I assume that's why Stephen is bringing the topic up.)
EnterpriseDB is second, because they employ me.  2ndQuadrant is third.
This is true whether you total by primary author or by who actually
committed the code.

http://rhaas.blogspot.com/2017/04/who-contributes-to-postgresql.html
https://www.reddit.com/r/PostgreSQL/comments/67uk65/who_contributes_to_postgresql_development/dgtxnt6/

Granted, those statistics are only for 2016.  I'm sure it's been
different in years past and will be again in the future, but I'll bet
the top company has rarely been anything other than Tom Lane's current
employer.

--
Robert Haas
EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company


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Re: Has anyone seen this marketing gimmick? EnterpriseDB vs MySQL vs MariaDB

Tsunakawa, Takayuki
In reply to this post by Stephen Frost
From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Stephen Frost
> I agree that it would have been good for them to include all of the major
> players when it comes to PG and not just focus on one.  The unfortunate
> reality is that in many other projects there's "the one" big company behind
> the open source project and few realize that PG has such a great and diverse
> multi-company ecosystem, even though many of us make a point to bring it
> up whenever we get the chance.

I sometimes want a list of organization names that develop PostgreSQL when I'm asked "How many companies and developers are developing PostgreSQL?"  This question is sometimes made to compare with MySQL on how the community is thriving.


> What might be interesting to discuss here is what more we can be doing to
> make it clear that the PostgreSQL project is independent of any single
> company and instead has contributions from many, not unlike the Linux
> Foundation or the Python Foundation.

As a user, what reminds me of a single company is the Windows distribution.  The PG package for Windows is provided by EDB, which I think may give an impression that PostgreSQL is a single-vendor open source project.  Please don't get me wrong, I'm grateful to EDB for providing an easy-to-use package.

Regards
Takayuki Tsunakawa





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