Suggestion: description / summary metadata for emails in mailing list archive

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Suggestion: description / summary metadata for emails in mailing list archive

Andres Freund
Hi,

Has somebody considered adding the twitter / opengraph summary stuff to
the mailing list archive?

E.g. for https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/97df3af9-8b5e-fb7f-a029-3eb7e80d7af9%402ndquadrant.com
adding something along the lines of

og:url                  https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/97df3af9-8b5e-fb7f-a029-3eb7e80d7af9%402ndquadrant.com
og:title                Subject: select_common_typmod
og:site_name            PostgreSQL mailing list archive
twitter:card            summary
og:description          First few words of email?
og:type                 article
og:article:author       Peter Eisentraut
og:article:published_time Tue, 20 Oct 2020 10:58:18 +0200
og:image                https://www.postgresql.org/favicon.ico :)

would make mailing list references be a bit more attractive to use in
slack, teams, twitter and whatnot.

Greetings,

Andres Freund


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Re: Suggestion: description / summary metadata for emails in mailing list archive

Andres Freund
Hi,

On 2020-10-20 09:06:14 -0700, Andres Freund wrote:

> Has somebody considered adding the twitter / opengraph summary stuff to
> the mailing list archive?
>
> E.g. for https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/97df3af9-8b5e-fb7f-a029-3eb7e80d7af9%402ndquadrant.com
> adding something along the lines of
>
> og:url                  https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/97df3af9-8b5e-fb7f-a029-3eb7e80d7af9%402ndquadrant.com
> og:title                Subject: select_common_typmod
> og:site_name            PostgreSQL mailing list archive
> twitter:card            summary
> og:description          First few words of email?
> og:type                 article
> og:article:author       Peter Eisentraut
> og:article:published_time Tue, 20 Oct 2020 10:58:18 +0200
> og:image                https://www.postgresql.org/favicon.ico :)
>
> would make mailing list references be a bit more attractive to use in
> slack, teams, twitter and whatnot.

As an example I added the attributes to my email above, and copied the
mailing list archive page. Didn't bother to adjust relative css/js
references, so it'll look bad in a browser, obviously.

modified: https://anarazel.de/t/2020-10-20/email-03.html
original: https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/20201020160614.55b3dyupkojsdu5h%40alap3.anarazel.de

Greetings,

Andres Freund


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Re: Suggestion: description / summary metadata for emails in mailing list archive

Magnus Hagander-2
On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 6:54 PM Andres Freund <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

On 2020-10-20 09:06:14 -0700, Andres Freund wrote:
> Has somebody considered adding the twitter / opengraph summary stuff to
> the mailing list archive?
>
> E.g. for https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/97df3af9-8b5e-fb7f-a029-3eb7e80d7af9%402ndquadrant.com
> adding something along the lines of
>
> og:url                  https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/97df3af9-8b5e-fb7f-a029-3eb7e80d7af9%402ndquadrant.com
> og:title                Subject: select_common_typmod
> og:site_name            PostgreSQL mailing list archive
> twitter:card            summary
> og:description          First few words of email?
> og:type                 article
> og:article:author       Peter Eisentraut
> og:article:published_time Tue, 20 Oct 2020 10:58:18 +0200
> og:image                https://www.postgresql.org/favicon.ico :)
>
> would make mailing list references be a bit more attractive to use in
> slack, teams, twitter and whatnot.

As an example I added the attributes to my email above, and copied the
mailing list archive page. Didn't bother to adjust relative css/js
references, so it'll look bad in a browser, obviously.

modified: https://anarazel.de/t/2020-10-20/email-03.html
original: https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/20201020160614.55b3dyupkojsdu5h%40alap3.anarazel.de

I don't think anybody has, but it certainly would make sense to do so!

Maybe it would actually also make sense to do so in the documentation pages for example? (it would probalby be a lot of work to do it across *all* of the website, but the docs could perhaps be singled out)? 

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Re: Suggestion: description / summary metadata for emails in mailing list archive

Andres Freund
Hi,

On 2020-10-20 18:57:00 +0200, Magnus Hagander wrote:
> I don't think anybody has, but it certainly would make sense to do so!

Cool!


> Maybe it would actually also make sense to do so in the documentation pages
> for example? (it would probalby be a lot of work to do it across *all* of
> the website, but the docs could perhaps be singled out)?

Yea, agreed - I was also wondering about that.

Greetings,

Andres Freund


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Re: Suggestion: description / summary metadata for emails in mailing list archive

Magnus Hagander-2


On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 8:02 PM Andres Freund <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

On 2020-10-20 18:57:00 +0200, Magnus Hagander wrote:
> I don't think anybody has, but it certainly would make sense to do so!

Cool!

Thinking some more -- what would be the reasonable thing to put in when somebody links to a /flat/ URL? We can't pick up the part after the # to indicate the individual email there..


> Maybe it would actually also make sense to do so in the documentation pages
> for example? (it would probalby be a lot of work to do it across *all* of
> the website, but the docs could perhaps be singled out)?

Yea, agreed - I was also wondering about that.

Probably also news posts. 

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Re: Suggestion: description / summary metadata for emails in mailing list archive

Andres Freund
Hi,

On 2020-10-20 22:02:52 +0200, Magnus Hagander wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 8:02 PM Andres Freund <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > On 2020-10-20 18:57:00 +0200, Magnus Hagander wrote:
> > > I don't think anybody has, but it certainly would make sense to do so!
> >
> > Cool!
> >
>
> Thinking some more -- what would be the reasonable thing to put in when
> somebody links to a /flat/ URL? We can't pick up the part after the # to
> indicate the individual email there..

They're also currently excluded from indexing via robots.txt, which I
think also prevents accesses by twitter et al.

Leaving that aside, how about just including the subject?

Greetings,

Andres Freund


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Re: Suggestion: description / summary metadata for emails in mailing list archive

Magnus Hagander-2
On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 5:26 AM Andres Freund <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

On 2020-10-20 22:02:52 +0200, Magnus Hagander wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 8:02 PM Andres Freund <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > On 2020-10-20 18:57:00 +0200, Magnus Hagander wrote:
> > > I don't think anybody has, but it certainly would make sense to do so!
> >
> > Cool!
> >
>
> Thinking some more -- what would be the reasonable thing to put in when
> somebody links to a /flat/ URL? We can't pick up the part after the # to
> indicate the individual email there..

They're also currently excluded from indexing via robots.txt, which I
think also prevents accesses by twitter et al.

Hmm. Good point, I didn't realize that. We might want to consider making exceptions based on user-agent to that I guess. But one thing at a time.


Leaving that aside, how about just including the subject?

Yeah, that probably makes sense. 

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Re: Suggestion: description / summary metadata for emails in mailing list archive

Magnus Hagander-2


On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 11:08 AM Magnus Hagander <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 5:26 AM Andres Freund <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

On 2020-10-20 22:02:52 +0200, Magnus Hagander wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 8:02 PM Andres Freund <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > On 2020-10-20 18:57:00 +0200, Magnus Hagander wrote:
> > > I don't think anybody has, but it certainly would make sense to do so!
> >
> > Cool!
> >
>
> Thinking some more -- what would be the reasonable thing to put in when
> somebody links to a /flat/ URL? We can't pick up the part after the # to
> indicate the individual email there..

They're also currently excluded from indexing via robots.txt, which I
think also prevents accesses by twitter et al.

Hmm. Good point, I didn't realize that. We might want to consider making exceptions based on user-agent to that I guess. But one thing at a time.


Leaving that aside, how about just including the subject?

Yeah, that probably makes sense. 


I've deployed code that does this for the archives. Don't have anything for the docs and news yet, but I'll get to that in not-too-long. 

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Re: Suggestion: description / summary metadata for emails in mailing list archive

Álvaro Herrera
On 2020-Oct-21, Magnus Hagander wrote:

> I've deployed code that does this for the archives. Don't have anything for
> the docs and news yet, but I'll get to that in not-too-long.

Thanks, great stuff.  This just came in action in a Slack channel.  It
showed up as attached.  IMO the image at 900x928 is a little bit on the
large side.  Slack resized it to about 1/4 of that for me, but still it
seems excessive.  Do we maybe have a smaller one we can use?

Another thing to note is that the og:article:author doesn't show up
anywhere.  I think this is just Slack's fault.  I don't know if that can
be fixed.  Any ideas?

og.png (77K) Download Attachment
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Re: Suggestion: description / summary metadata for emails in mailing list archive

Álvaro Herrera
On 2020-Oct-21, Alvaro Herrera wrote:

> On 2020-Oct-21, Magnus Hagander wrote:
>
> > I've deployed code that does this for the archives. Don't have anything for
> > the docs and news yet, but I'll get to that in not-too-long.
>
> Thanks, great stuff.  This just came in action in a Slack channel.  It
> showed up as attached.  IMO the image at 900x928 is a little bit on the
> large side.  Slack resized it to about 1/4 of that for me, but still it
> seems excessive.  Do we maybe have a smaller one we can use?

Ah, Andres just posted on twitter.
https://twitter.com/AndresFreundTec/status/1318952305123676160
It looks better there as far as the image goes, but as on Slack the
author name is not displayed.



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Re: Suggestion: description / summary metadata for emails in mailing list archive

Andres Freund
In reply to this post by Magnus Hagander-2
Hi,

On 2020-10-21 16:19:51 +0200, Magnus Hagander wrote:
> I've deployed code that does this for the archives. Don't have anything for
> the docs and news yet, but I'll get to that in not-too-long.

Awesome!

Could be worth using a slightly smaller elephant, here's your email as
it shows in slack... ;)

Greetings,

Andres Freund

elephant-dwarfing-emails.png (136K) Download Attachment
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Re: Suggestion: description / summary metadata for emails in mailing list archive

Andres Freund
In reply to this post by Álvaro Herrera
Hi,

On 2020-10-21 13:31:08 -0300, Alvaro Herrera wrote:

> On 2020-Oct-21, Alvaro Herrera wrote:
>
> > On 2020-Oct-21, Magnus Hagander wrote:
> >
> > > I've deployed code that does this for the archives. Don't have anything for
> > > the docs and news yet, but I'll get to that in not-too-long.
> >
> > Thanks, great stuff.  This just came in action in a Slack channel.  It
> > showed up as attached.  IMO the image at 900x928 is a little bit on the
> > large side.  Slack resized it to about 1/4 of that for me, but still it
> > seems excessive.  Do we maybe have a smaller one we can use?
FWIW, the earlier test of this which used the favicon looked better in
slack (except the overly puny resolution, of course). See attached.

https://ogp.me/ suggests theres
og:image:width - The number of pixels wide.
og:image:height - The number of pixels high.

no idea if that's in relation to the sizing of the preview or the actual
image.


> Ah, Andres just posted on twitter.
> https://twitter.com/AndresFreundTec/status/1318952305123676160
> It looks better there as far as the image goes, but as on Slack the
> author name is not displayed.

Not sure they ever do. But I am also not clear whether the right tag is
og:article:author, or article:author. Actually kind of seems the latter.

Greetings,

Andres Freund

elephant-on-equal-footing.png (54K) Download Attachment
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Re: Suggestion: description / summary metadata for emails in mailing list archive

Magnus Hagander-2


On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 6:52 PM Andres Freund <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

On 2020-10-21 13:31:08 -0300, Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> On 2020-Oct-21, Alvaro Herrera wrote:
>
> > On 2020-Oct-21, Magnus Hagander wrote:
> >
> > > I've deployed code that does this for the archives. Don't have anything for
> > > the docs and news yet, but I'll get to that in not-too-long.
> >
> > Thanks, great stuff.  This just came in action in a Slack channel.  It
> > showed up as attached.  IMO the image at 900x928 is a little bit on the
> > large side.  Slack resized it to about 1/4 of that for me, but still it
> > seems excessive.  Do we maybe have a smaller one we can use?

But Slony has such a nice face!!!


FWIW, the earlier test of this which used the favicon looked better in
slack (except the overly puny resolution, of course). See attached.

https://ogp.me/ suggests theres
og:image:width - The number of pixels wide.
og:image:height - The number of pixels high.

no idea if that's in relation to the sizing of the preview or the actual
image.

So we already have one that's 64x64 on the website at https://www.postgresql.org/media/img/about/press/elephant64.png

We could easily use that one, but then maybe 64 is too small instead?

Has anybody seen any recommendations of what size one should use?


> Ah, Andres just posted on twitter.
> https://twitter.com/AndresFreundTec/status/1318952305123676160
> It looks better there as far as the image goes, but as on Slack the
> author name is not displayed.

Not sure they ever do. But I am also not clear whether the right tag is
og:article:author, or article:author. Actually kind of seems the latter.

Yeah, I'd say that's entirely unclear. On the ogp.me site it says it should be an array of structures. And in other examples it should be the URL to a facebook profile.

Do you happen to have an example of where Slack *does* show the author name (which is not a facebook profile)?

It is pretty clear it should be article:author and not og:article:author though, per examples.
 

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Re: Suggestion: description / summary metadata for emails in mailing list archive

Magnus Hagander-2
On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 7:01 PM Magnus Hagander <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 6:52 PM Andres Freund <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

On 2020-10-21 13:31:08 -0300, Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> On 2020-Oct-21, Alvaro Herrera wrote:
>
> > On 2020-Oct-21, Magnus Hagander wrote:
> >
> > > I've deployed code that does this for the archives. Don't have anything for
> > > the docs and news yet, but I'll get to that in not-too-long.
> >
> > Thanks, great stuff.  This just came in action in a Slack channel.  It
> > showed up as attached.  IMO the image at 900x928 is a little bit on the
> > large side.  Slack resized it to about 1/4 of that for me, but still it
> > seems excessive.  Do we maybe have a smaller one we can use?

But Slony has such a nice face!!!


FWIW, the earlier test of this which used the favicon looked better in
slack (except the overly puny resolution, of course). See attached.

https://ogp.me/ suggests theres
og:image:width - The number of pixels wide.
og:image:height - The number of pixels high.

no idea if that's in relation to the sizing of the preview or the actual
image.

So we already have one that's 64x64 on the website at https://www.postgresql.org/media/img/about/press/elephant64.png

We could easily use that one, but then maybe 64 is too small instead?

Has anybody seen any recommendations of what size one should use?

I found a few and they all talk about sizes in excess of 1000  pixels. So our aspect is wrong, but other than that we're not too big..  


> Ah, Andres just posted on twitter.
> https://twitter.com/AndresFreundTec/status/1318952305123676160
> It looks better there as far as the image goes, but as on Slack the
> author name is not displayed.

Not sure they ever do. But I am also not clear whether the right tag is
og:article:author, or article:author. Actually kind of seems the latter.

Yeah, I'd say that's entirely unclear. On the ogp.me site it says it should be an array of structures. And in other examples it should be the URL to a facebook profile.

Do you happen to have an example of where Slack *does* show the author name (which is not a facebook profile)?

It is pretty clear it should be article:author and not og:article:author though, per examples.


And it seems it should also be article:published_time and not og:published_time. I've pushed an update that changes both these. 

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Re: Suggestion: description / summary metadata for emails in mailing list archive

Álvaro Herrera
In reply to this post by Magnus Hagander-2
On 2020-Oct-21, Magnus Hagander wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 6:52 PM Andres Freund <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > no idea if that's in relation to the sizing of the preview or the actual
> > image.
>
> So we already have one that's 64x64 on the website at
> https://www.postgresql.org/media/img/about/press/elephant64.png
>
> We could easily use that one, but then maybe 64 is too small instead?

Dunno, 64x64 seems plenty enough.

> Yeah, I'd say that's entirely unclear. On the ogp.me site it says it should
> be an array of structures. And in other examples it should be the URL to a
> facebook profile.

"an array of" just means you can have multiple of the same tag.

> Do you happen to have an example of where Slack *does* show the author name
> (which is not a facebook profile)?
>
> It is pretty clear it should be article:author and not og:article:author
> though, per examples.

Yeah.  Look:
https://developers.facebook.com/tools/debug/?q=https%3A%2F%2Fpostgr.es%2Fm%2FCABUevEy0a0JPfbkYpBk_7o%2BFVfgBmkB_nLZ38PTwYgk1-DrpPA%40mail.gmail.com