bad entries at proffesional services and hosting providers

Hi,

I have a list of $subject from the southamerica region, how would be
the right way to report those?
There was a time when i could act on those entries by myself but it
seems i'm a mere mortal now

--
Jaime Casanova
Consultores de PostgreSQL

On 12/17/20 11:50 PM, Jaime Casanova wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a list of $subject from the southamerica region, how would be
> the right way to report those?

Here or webmaster@ is fine.

I do a periodic pruning of the entries (I believe the last one was ~1
year ago).

Note that based on how it's a bad entry, it may require additional
verification on the moderation team's part.

Thanks,

Jonathan

On Fri, Dec 18, 2020 at 8:27 AM Jonathan S. Katz <[hidden email]> wrote:
yes, of course.

So i will list them here.

== These sites do not contain any reference, that we could find at
least, to: postgresql, services for postgresql nor any
postgresql-based products.

A & W asociados, C.A.
http://www.awasociados.com
website does not respond, while there is a www.awasociados.net, it
seems a different company (a different country and with services not
postgresql related)

Corvus Data
http://www.corvusdata.com.mx/
website contain references to postgresql services, but no link points
to a page explaining those services instead they point to a strange
“about me” page

DBAS
http://www.dbas.me/
website requires more investigation, it only includes a button to send
an email. But it specifies they work with postgresql.

EQ Soft Consultoría y Soporte EIRL
http://www.eqsoft.net/
we cannot find evidence that it relates to postgresql in anyway

Mondrian Tecnologia
http://www.mondriantecnologia.com/
when we originally tested the url, the website did not respond. Now it
shows a banner saying is on maintenance, so maybe we should contact
them or just wait some time and recheck.

Pgopen
http://www.pgopen.com.br/
El sitio web indicado no menciona en absoluto a Postgresql como
servicio o plataforma ofrecida y tampoco contiene información sobre
algún tipo de servicio relacionado con PG. En ninguna parte del sitio
web de la empresa aparece siquiera el nombre Postgresql.

Linux Solutions
https://linuxsolutions.com.br/
we cannot find evidence that it relates to postgresql in anyway

Ideasoft Uruguay SRL
https://www.ideasoft.biz/
we cannot find evidence that it relates to postgresql in anyway

IPSOFT S.A.
https://www.ipsoft-sa.com/
we cannot find evidence that it relates to postgresql in anyway

TELEMATICA S.A.
https://www.telematica.com.pe/
we cannot find evidence that it relates to postgresql in anyway


== in doubt ==

Engine Yard, Inc.
http://www.engineyard.com/
we are in doubt about this entry, it mentions postgresql in only one
page that we can see and it is in the middle of a list of other
databases they support. Also not sure if the fact that it could
provide services worldwide allows a provider to be listed on all
regions


InfraCoop
https://www.infracoop.com.ar/
they don’t mention postgresql in their services, but they do mention
it on the skills on their staff nonetheless the last
postgresql-related blog was 5 years ago

--
Jaime Casanova
Consultores en PostgreSQL

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 4:51 PM Jaime Casanova
<[hidden email]> wrote:
[... trim a lot of not complying sites ...]

so, are we going to do something about this or we just don't care?
just wanted to know if I should keep using my time on this

--
Jaime Casanova
CTO - SystemGuards
Consultores de PostgreSQL

On 1/16/21 11:38 PM, Jaime Casanova wrote: There is care, but there are also other priorities on the moderation
team, both professionally and personally.

However, I will take care of this right now.

Jonathan

On 12/28/20 4:51 PM, Jaime Casanova wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 18, 2020 at 8:27 AM Jonathan S. Katz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> == These sites do not contain any reference, that we could find at
> least, to: postgresql, services for postgresql nor any
> postgresql-based products.
>
> A & W asociados, C.A.

Confirmed and removed.

> Corvus Data
> http://www.corvusdata.com.mx/
> website contain references to postgresql services, but no link points
> to a page explaining those services instead they point to a strange
> “about me” page

I was able to get to a listing about PostgreSQL training from the homepage:

https://corvusdata.com.mx/2021/01/14/curso-postgresql/

Overall, it's not up to the moderation team to judge the quality of the
website unless it's in flagrant disregard of the policy.[1]

> DBAS
> http://www.dbas.me/
> website requires more investigation, it only includes a button to send
> an email. But it specifies they work with postgresql.

The entry and website are good enough to meet policy[1].

> EQ Soft Consultoría y Soporte EIRL
> http://www.eqsoft.net/
> we cannot find evidence that it relates to postgresql in anyway

I clicked into the website and found the owner listing experience with
PostgreSQL:

http://www.eqsoft.net/trabajo/requerimiento-de-personal-noviembre-2019/

> Mondrian Tecnologia
> http://www.mondriantecnologia.com/
> when we originally tested the url, the website did not respond. Now it
> shows a banner saying is on maintenance, so maybe we should contact
> them or just wait some time and recheck.

I would recommend contacting them in this case.

> Pgopen
> http://www.pgopen.com.br/
> El sitio web indicado no menciona en absoluto a Postgresql como
> servicio o plataforma ofrecida y tampoco contiene información sobre
> algún tipo de servicio relacionado con PG. En ninguna parte del sitio
> web de la empresa aparece siquiera el nombre Postgresql.

I found information that they provide PostgreSQL services:

http://www.pgopen.com.br/pgopen-amplia-seus-atendimentos/

> Linux Solutions
> https://linuxsolutions.com.br/
> we cannot find evidence that it relates to postgresql in anyway

I found a URL referencing a PostgreSQL training course:

https://linuxsolutions.com.br/ajuda-linux-dia-70-introducao-ao-postgresql-dia-1/

Perhaps they have pivoted away from providing services around PostgreSQL
and it would be worth reaching out to them.

> Ideasoft Uruguay SRL
> https://www.ideasoft.biz/
> we cannot find evidence that it relates to postgresql in anyway

I found some support tickets subdomain on their site related to
PostgreSQL. I believe the correct course of action would be to reach out
to them and see if they still support PostgreSQL.

>
> IPSOFT S.A.
> https://www.ipsoft-sa.com/
> we cannot find evidence that it relates to postgresql in anyway

I agree. It seems they have pivoted. I have removed this.

> TELEMATICA S.A.
> https://www.telematica.com.pe/
> we cannot find evidence that it relates to postgresql in anyway

I found information both on Postgres + PostGIS, e.g:

https://www.telematica.com.pe/que-hay-de-nuevo-en-arcmap-10-6/

They appear to specialize in GIS work.

> == in doubt ==
>
> Engine Yard, Inc.
> http://www.engineyard.com/
> we are in doubt about this entry, it mentions postgresql in only one
> page that we can see and it is in the middle of a list of other
> databases they support. Also not sure if the fact that it could
> provide services worldwide allows a provider to be listed on all
> regions

Engine Yard still supports PostgreSQL:

https://www.engineyard.com/postgresql-database-hosting/

> InfraCoop
> https://www.infracoop.com.ar/
> they don’t mention postgresql in their services, but they do mention
> it on the skills on their staff nonetheless the last
> postgresql-related blog was 5 years ago

On the homepage, there is a customer reference that appears to talk
about their PostgreSQL modernization efforts.

For next steps, I am happy to reach out to the two in question and see
if I get a response.

>> so, are we going to do something about this or we just don't care?
>> just wanted to know if I should keep using my time on this
>
> There is care, but there are also other priorities on the moderation
> team, both professionally and personally.
>
> However, I will take care of this right now.

A follow up on this comment: note that your original reply to it came
during a week where many people were on holiday, and roughly two weeks
after we first corresponded on it.

This was certainly in my backlog to review and I appreciate the nudge,
but I want to note that this is not due to a lack of care, but as
mentioned, priorities both in and out of the community.

Thanks,

Jonathan

[1] https://www.postgresql.org/about/policies/services-and-hosting/

On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 9:27 AM Jonathan S. Katz <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks for looking into this.

Sorry if I sounded rude, it wasn't my intention but I have bad
memories about trying to collaborate in this area. I understand it was
another time and other people.

--
Jaime Casanova
CTO - SystemGuards
Consultores de PostgreSQL

On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 9:48 AM Jonathan S. Katz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 12/28/20 4:51 PM, Jaime Casanova wrote:
> > On Fri, Dec 18, 2020 at 8:27 AM Jonathan S. Katz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
[...]

interesting. in my defense, these entries were added on january 2021
so they weren't when we looked at them

> > DBAS
> > http://www.dbas.me/
> > website requires more investigation, it only includes a button to send
> > an email. But it specifies they work with postgresql.
>
> The entry and website are good enough to meet policy[1].
>

I'm contacting them, I'm not sure they are actually active but will confirm

> > EQ Soft Consultoría y Soporte EIRL
> > http://www.eqsoft.net/
> > we cannot find evidence that it relates to postgresql in anyway
>
> I clicked into the website and found the owner listing experience with
> PostgreSQL:
>
> http://www.eqsoft.net/trabajo/requerimiento-de-personal-noviembre-2019/
>

that's not owner experience but looking for new people with those
skills, anyway I'm not disputing the experience they have... and there
was a time when they actually advertized that they provided postgresql
services

But what policy actually says is that "services must be related to
PostgreSQL in some direct and obvious way" and that is not the case.
Not that I'm completely happy with policy, maybe we need to look at it
first before continuing with this exercise?


> > Mondrian Tecnologia
> > http://www.mondriantecnologia.com/
> > when we originally tested the url, the website did not respond. Now it
> > shows a banner saying is on maintenance, so maybe we should contact
> > them or just wait some time and recheck.
>
> I would recommend contacting them in this case.
>

will do

that post is from 2015 and published by a postgresql dba that no
longer works there, maybe i should contact them to understand if they
already provides the service

looking again I found 4 5-minutes videos about postgresql between 2016
and 2017, will try to contact them to confirm

> > Ideasoft Uruguay SRL
> > https://www.ideasoft.biz/
> > we cannot find evidence that it relates to postgresql in anyway
>
> I found some support tickets subdomain on their site related to
> PostgreSQL. I believe the correct course of action would be to reach out
> to them and see if they still support PostgreSQL.
>

will do

I noted that, again I will point at the policy that requires "services
must be related to PostgreSQL in some direct and obvious way" (note
that I'm ignoring the "All services" and just saying "Any service")

Again, maybe we need to review the policy


I can do it myself also, whatever works for you
thanks

--
Jaime Casanova
CTO - SystemGuards
Consultores de PostgreSQL

On 1/17/21 7:39 PM, Jaime Casanova wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 9:48 AM Jonathan S. Katz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On 12/28/20 4:51 PM, Jaime Casanova wrote:
>>> On Fri, Dec 18, 2020 at 8:27 AM Jonathan S. Katz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>

>>> Corvus Data
>>> http://www.corvusdata.com.mx/
>
> interesting. in my defense, these entries were added on january 2021
> so they weren't when we looked at them

The fun thing about moderating these sections of the website: after you
make a pass at it, it immediately becomes stale ;) It is a classic cat &
mouse game.

>>> DBAS
>>> http://www.dbas.me/
>>> website requires more investigation, it only includes a button to send
>>> an email. But it specifies they work with postgresql.
>>
>> The entry and website are good enough to meet policy[1].
>>
>
> I'm contacting them, I'm not sure they are actually active but will confirm

Please see my note below about reaching out.
The policy states "Further, the web site you link to in the listing must
somewhere mention PostgreSQL as an offered service or platform."[1]

I think this fine. We have listings that range from solo practioners to
multibillionaire organizations. I think the goal overall is to be
encouraging.

And as stated above, arguably each entry goes stale the moment after
it's reviewed. It's the nature of the game.
Yes, I would agree with contacting them.
Sounds good.
If they are doing work with PostGIS, I believe that qualifies as being
related to PostgreSQL.

>> For next steps, I am happy to reach out to the two in question and see
>> if I get a response.
>>
>
> I can do it myself also, whatever works for you
> thanks

If you are reaching out to these organizations directly, please include
webmaster@ on the correspondences, as that will save time on the
moderation team verifying.

Thanks again for working on this!

Jonathan

[1] https://www.postgresql.org/about/policies/services-and-hosting/

On 2021-Jan-18, Jonathan S. Katz wrote:
> On 1/17/21 7:39 PM, Jaime Casanova wrote:
> > On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 9:48 AM Jonathan S. Katz <[hidden email]> wrote:

I read this policy as: it must be possible to find Postgres-related
services by browsing the website starting from the published URL.  In
this case, a person looking for Postgres services browses their website,
they won't find anywhere that they are offering PostgreSQL services.

As Jaime said, the post you found just says they are looking to hire
somebody with Postgres experience, which is definitely not the same as
offering Postgres services.  I do not think that merely having the word
"Postgres" somewhere in the website is enough to qualify.

> >>> Mondrian Tecnologia
> >>> http://www.mondriantecnologia.com/
> >>> when we originally tested the url, the website did not respond. Now it
> >>> shows a banner saying is on maintenance, so maybe we should contact
> >>> them or just wait some time and recheck.
> >>
> >> I would recommend contacting them in this case.
> >>
> > will do

Website is back.  There's no mention of Postgres anywhere, though the
logo is an elephant.  There is some "Lorem ipsum" content so we can wait
a few days to see if they upload something relevant.  I do not think
that merely having an elephant as a logo is enough to qualify.

--
Álvaro Herrera                            39°49'30"S 73°17'W

On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 4:44 PM Jonathan S. Katz <[hidden email]> wrote:
BTW, what I did was to ask for information about their services but
not mentioning the postgresql.org entry.
No answer 'till now.


--
Jaime Casanova
SystemGuards
Consultores de PostgreSQL

On 1/21/21 5:03 PM, Alvaro Herrera wrote: I would suggest reaching out to get some clarity, if this has not
already been done.

As mentioned upthread, given the range of organizations that can post
professional services, we try to ensure that they "check the boxes" of
what needs to be listed with passing limited judgment on the quality of
the content.
Yeah, skimming this, I think it should be removed. It seems to now fit
the profile of entries that do get rejected. I will go ahead and do so.

Thanks,

Jonathan

Hi,

On 1/21/21 11:39 PM, Jaime Casanova wrote: Are there any updates on the outstanding questions on this thread?

Thanks,

Jonathan